I think I may have picked the wrong instructor - advise please

[Pizz]

I’m new to the board and my wife and I are new to scuba and are in the process of being certified. We live in an area with few options for certification. My wife is a bit timid with anything new and on a scale of 1-10 is probably a 5 for swimming skills. I am half fish.
We are going to Cozumel in February, and the idea was to get certified here first so we would have more dive time there. May have been a mistake, but here is where we’re at:
Picked a local shop with an older dive master with a good reputation for teaching the more “timid” individual.

1. Three hour book session in shop – done.
2. First pool session – We were told that most of his divers get the pool work done in one session. He scheduled a two hour session in a city pool. We had about an hour in the pool and according to him got about half way thru (my wife got the blame for not getting it all done).
3. Second pool session he scheduled with another student along. This time my bcd was a bit sloppy and my wife’s was at least one size if not two, too big. I had trouble getting stable and my poor wife spent an hour feet up, on her back and every other position you can think of, and then he told her it was all her fault cause her only problem was she was using her hands too much. Never had the problem in the first pool session, of course both our bcd’s for that one fit pretty well (snug and when inflated there was pressure on chest).
4. After some research, I know for certain that this guy is broke and ready to lose his shop.
5. I think he’s trying to jam us thru or at least run us off and keep money. I’m not comfortable at all.

Right now, mentally I’m in “cut my losses as best I can”. My idea is to at least try to get the book work and pool done with this guy and walk (run??) away. I’ve made arrangements in Cozumel to have the what ever we have left to do, done there. . (and a check out for what we may not have learned and should have) money is not a huge issue, but we’re far from rich.
Before I go down and have a long talk with this guy regarding just how much more we are going to do with him, some advice is requested:
Question: Can this guy take an average person and certify with only 2 hours pool and 4 open water dives? We’re on our own with book learning (and we got only one set of books since we will be diving together (I’ve paid for two).
Question: I’ve tentatively made up my mind to go with bpw from DSS when we get our equipment. I think getting hers now might be a good idea for her to finish pool work, but then I’m going to have to fight the instructor cause I’m getting the idea next step is to try to sell us bcd’s that fit, cause his rental stuff just doesn’t fit wife, etc, , ,, Good idea or bad???
In any event, I’m going down to his shop and have a fairly long discussion with this guy. One more pool session is all he gets before I "run". My wife will definitely do her open water dives down south, but if he comes around I may continue getting certified with him (bad Idea????)
Thanks for any comments

 

[00wabbit]

I’m new to the board and my wife and I are new to scuba and are in the process of being certified. We live in an area with few options for certification. My wife is a bit timid with anything new and on a scale of 1-10 is probably a 5 for swimming skills. I am half fish.
We are going to Cozumel in February, and the idea was to get certified here first so we would have more dive time there. May have been a mistake, but here is where we’re at:
Picked a local shop with an older dive master with a good reputation for teaching the more “timid” individual.

1. Three hour book session in shop – done.
2. First pool session – We were told that most of his divers get the pool work done in one session. He scheduled a two hour session in a city pool. We had about an hour in the pool and according to him got about half way thru (my wife got the blame for not getting it all done).
3. Second pool session he scheduled with another student along. This time my bcd was a bit sloppy and my wife’s was at least one size if not two, too big. I had trouble getting stable and my poor wife spent an hour feet up, on her back and every other position you can think of, and then he told her it was all her fault cause her only problem was she was using her hands too much. Never had the problem in the first pool session, of course both our bcd’s for that one fit pretty well (snug and when inflated there was pressure on chest).
4. After some research, I know for certain that this guy is broke and ready to lose his shop.
5. I think he’s trying to jam us thru or at least run us off and keep money. I’m not comfortable at all.

Right now, mentally I’m in “cut my losses as best I can”. My idea is to at least try to get the book work and pool done with this guy and walk (run??) away. I’ve made arrangements in Cozumel to have the what ever we have left to do, done there. . (and a check out for what we may not have learned and should have) money is not a huge issue, but we’re far from rich.
Before I go down and have a long talk with this guy regarding just how much more we are going to do with him, some advice is requested:
Question: Can this guy take an average person and certify with only 2 hours pool and 4 open water dives? We’re on our own with book learning (and we got only one set of books since we will be diving together (I’ve paid for two).
Question: I’ve tentatively made up my mind to go with bpw from DSS when we get our equipment. I think getting hers now might be a good idea for her to finish pool work, but then I’m going to have to fight the instructor cause I’m getting the idea next step is to try to sell us bcd’s that fit, cause his rental stuff just doesn’t fit wife, etc, , ,, Good idea or bad???
In any event, I’m going down to his shop and have a fairly long discussion with this guy. One more pool session is all he gets before I "run". My wife will definitely do her open water dives down south, but if he comes around I may continue getting certified with him (bad Idea????)
Thanks for any comments

Can't tell you much about the instructor, but when I got certified I did the executive course which was compact, but it was 2 days half day in classroom and half day in pool. Probalby had a good 6 hrs or more in the pool before the 4 OW dives.

For the gear DSS will probably be great for you, but if she is timid maybe you should hold off on gear for her at the moment - she may not end up diving too much. She may also like the comfort of a jacket bc better after she tries a bit.

If she is doing her dives down south and you think this guy useless, you might as well do yours down south as well. You can be in the same class together.

If you paid for 2 books you should have 2 books. Not that you need 2, but they are damn expensive for what they are and you should get what you pay for.

 

[TMHeimer]

The divemaster is really a certified instructor, no?

 

[danvolker]

I’m new to the board and my wife and I are new to scuba and are in the process of being certified. We live in an area with few options for certification. My wife is a bit timid with anything new and on a scale of 1-10 is probably a 5 for swimming skills. I am half fish.
We are going to Cozumel in February, and the idea was to get certified here first so we would have more dive time there. May have been a mistake, but here is where we’re at:
Picked a local shop with an older dive master with a good reputation for teaching the more “timid” individual.

1. Three hour book session in shop – done.
2. First pool session – We were told that most of his divers get the pool work done in one session. He scheduled a two hour session in a city pool. We had about an hour in the pool and according to him got about half way thru (my wife got the blame for not getting it all done).
3. Second pool session he scheduled with another student along. This time my bcd was a bit sloppy and my wife’s was at least one size if not two, too big. I had trouble getting stable and my poor wife spent an hour feet up, on her back and every other position you can think of, and then he told her it was all her fault cause her only problem was she was using her hands too much. Never had the problem in the first pool session, of course both our bcd’s for that one fit pretty well (snug and when inflated there was pressure on chest).
4. After some research, I know for certain that this guy is broke and ready to lose his shop.
5. I think he’s trying to jam us thru or at least run us off and keep money. I’m not comfortable at all.

Right now, mentally I’m in “cut my losses as best I can”. My idea is to at least try to get the book work and pool done with this guy and walk (run??) away. I’ve made arrangements in Cozumel to have the what ever we have left to do, done there. . (and a check out for what we may not have learned and should have) money is not a huge issue, but we’re far from rich.
Before I go down and have a long talk with this guy regarding just how much more we are going to do with him, some advice is requested:
Question: Can this guy take an average person and certify with only 2 hours pool and 4 open water dives? We’re on our own with book learning (and we got only one set of books since we will be diving together (I’ve paid for two).
Question: I’ve tentatively made up my mind to go with bpw from DSS when we get our equipment. I think getting hers now might be a good idea for her to finish pool work, but then I’m going to have to fight the instructor cause I’m getting the idea next step is to try to sell us bcd’s that fit, cause his rental stuff just doesn’t fit wife, etc, , ,, Good idea or bad???
In any event, I’m going down to his shop and have a fairly long discussion with this guy. One more pool session is all he gets before I "run". My wife will definitely do her open water dives down south, but if he comes around I may continue getting certified with him (bad Idea????)
Thanks for any comments

Shoot go pro video of the next couple of interactions, and we will be able to judge a lot better
The DM better be an instructor....and...DEMAND that the BC's are fitting PERFECTLY. They MUST be the right size.

 

[robertarak]

I think he’s trying to jam us thru or at least run us off and keep money. I’m not comfortable at all.

That alone should answer the question if you should continue or not. Even the best of instructors will be not be good for you if you are not comfortable with him or her. It is a shame to "waste" vacation time on training that can be done locally, not to mention an almost universal truth about vacation certification vs. training at home. In this case it may very well be the best option.

Although it may not be of much help to you, others who read this thread may be interested in the short article; http://www.scubatude.com/Resources.html#how_to_choose_the_right_instructor

Good luck!

PS. You are both going to love diving! It gets so much better.

 

[TSandM]

It is POSSIBLE to certify someone in the time you describe, but that person has to be very comfortable in the water, and have no significant issues at all.

An instructor who blames the student for problems has just put himself in the unacceptable category for me. Students come in all flavors. Some are talented and take to diving like fish, and others struggle. Teaching the former set could be done by just about any certified diver -- where an instructor earns his keep is in analyzing the problems of the struggling student and figuring out how to fix them. This guy reminds me of my OW instructor, whose response to me saying I was finally getting buoyancy under control was to say, "It's the 5th pool session, I would hope so!'

I suspect your wife will love the DSS setup. I hated how unstable the gear was on me, because I'm little. The first dive I ever did in a backplate and wing setup, I told the nice man who lent it to me to tell me how much he wanted for it, because he wasn't getting it back. As a divemaster who works with a fair number of classes, I feel SO sorry for students in ill-fitting BCs, who, in addition to figuring everything else about scuba out, have to cope with a tank trying to do an end run around them every time they get the least bit off horizontal.

I think your plan to do a referral to Cozumel is an excellent one. This man is not doing you any favors.

 

[Agility]

We live in an area with few options for certification.

few does not mean only one .
You could either try to get a referral to your vacation destination or find another instructor in your area to avoid wasting time on holiday.
If your instructor is broke you will not get any money back either way, but he does not seem to be the right man to make your wife comfortable in the water. If she is not comfortable she will quit diving. BTW what is HER motivation to learn to dive?

 

[Diver0001]

Question: Can this guy take an average person and certify with only 2 hours pool and 4 open water dives? We’re on our own with book learning (and we got only one set of books since we will be diving together (I’ve paid for two).

It's normal that you pay for two sets of books. PADI demands it. it's part of the business model that every student buys books because PADI makes most of it's money by sales of these materials. It's not logical if you don't need the books but it's a business like any other and that are their rules.

As for the first part of your question. An exceptionally talented student *might* get most of the way through the course in two LONG pool sessions and 4 open water dives. As an instructor I find this tempo far too high and I would not expect you to look sorted in the water. The word "train-wreck" comes to mind, but that's a judgement on my part, having not seen you in the water.

One thing that *might* be a win/win is to discuss putting in a 3rd pool session or more dives in OW. You're allowed to dive 3 times in 1 day during the OW part of the course. If conditions permit, he can put that in for marginal additional cost on his part if you have the energy to dive 3 times in 1 day. It might cost a little more but the quality of the course could improve as a result.

As it is, I think the amount of in-water time he is spending with you is pretty short. It's about on par with those "flash" courses you get in resorts where divers are made just good enough to follow around behind a guide and not drown. Not sure if that's what you thought you signed up for when you decided to get trained before you went to Cozumel but he'd have to be a miracle worker to achieve much more than that, especially given what you said about how you're looking in the water.

Also, you say several times that he is a DM. Are you sure that is his qualification? A DM is not permitted to teach scuba diving. They are permitted to assist an instructor. If your guy really is a DM then he can't certify you even if he does teach you everything you need to know. The agency won't accept his credentials because he won't be authorized. Double check that to make sure. It's probably just a case of vocabulary but it could become important.

Question: I’ve tentatively made up my mind to go with bpw from DSS when we get our equipment. I think getting hers now might be a good idea for her to finish pool work, but then I’m going to have to fight the instructor cause I’m getting the idea next step is to try to sell us bcd’s that fit, cause his rental stuff just doesn’t fit wife, etc, , ,, Good idea or bad???

Focus on getting trained first. My personal opinion is that if you are trained well enough then you will be able to dive perfectly fine in any gear you choose to buy. Using poorly fitting rental gear as a way to motivate students to buy new stuff is one of the oldest tricks in the book. Do not allow yourself to get pressured to buy what he has. Make those choices based upon what you need/want, not what he has. If those things overlap and you feel comfortable buying from him, then cool.

R..

 

[scoobydrew]

not to mention an almost universal truth about vacation certification vs. training at home.

By this I assume you mean that training at home is better than training on vacation? I guess you formed your opinion from observations around your immediate vicinty, you teach to a high standard and believe that courses taught in foreign countries don't match that standard. Even if that is the case then I do not agree that the fact is "universal", as an instructor working in a vacation environment I get more than my fair share of referals who did their theory and pool work at home that are well below standard with holes in their education.

I see advantages in training at home but there are also advantages in training on vacation too, you just have to find the right place in both cases. An advantage of being taught by someone on vacation is that you may well be taught by someone who teaches SCUBA as a full time job - day in day out and has done for years as opposed to someone who dabbles in it on the weekend.

OP - is the course you are doing PADI? if so then based on your description there is something wrong here. You should indeed both have the manuals. The pool sessions are target specific in that the student needs to have mastered a series of actions before sign off, although there is not a set time for this I would say that 2 hours is impossible to meet the standards set by PADI. If you are both feeling that your training was incomplete and you do not feel ready for open water then that reinforces the fact that your pool sessions were sub standard.

If you are doing a PADI course then he can sign you both off on as much as you have done and you will be able to pick up the course exactly where you left off when you get to Coz. That said I immagine that the increase in cost to do the pool sessions again in Coz will be minimal especially when you weight it up against overall enjoyment, development and safety. Why not shoot off some emails to some dive centres down there and ask for the different prices i.e. how much will it cost to do just the check out dives and how much will it cost to do the confined (pool) sessions as well as the check out dives?

I think it is fair business practise for the guy to only charge you for what you have done with him unless you bail on a session with too short notice.

 

[RickyF]

Personally I would go to this individual and get the books that you paid for. I would then RUN to another instructor in your area and try to finish your training before you go on vacation. Cozumel diving can be stressful for newly certified divers especially if they are not really comfortable and have their buoyancy dialed in. The currents in Cozumel can be pretty strong which would be another factor to consider. Just my .02.