Discussion in 'Humor, Games, Clips, Yarns and Tales' started by Josepsh, Mar 26, 2013.
I'm a karate practitioner and I Picked A Fight with a MMA fighter on June 17th. .
still don't get it
I hope, your MMA opponent is Fedor Emelianenko? Good for you, he's a devoted ortodox Christian.
How is your ground game?
Most of the guys that I have trained with that consider themselves a "karate practitioner"....dont have much of a ground game.....
Karte practicioners usually have strong and fast legs which gives them an advantage in "run away" game.
Wouldn't it have been great to have a Bruce Lee clone today, to throw into the MMA mix.... Lee was both a great striker and an excellent grapler, though he did not roll around for 5 minutes working on a submission....his thing was an INSTANT break, not an "eventual" submission. Steven Segal actually practiced this as well in real life, as did Terry Giles ( 750 straight knockouts in Kumite, 14 world championships. (80's and 90's)...Terry was also a stiker and a grappler that would break someone rather than work for a submission...and Giles competed at about 250 pounds of ripped muscle with more speed than the middle-weights. Problem today is just no good existing gene pool today for the Strikers.
The problem is.....that....in order to be successful today in MMA as a striker - you have to be VERY good at avoiding a takedown. Not many are. There are plenty of really good strikers with KO power, but, in a long fight - its almost always going to end up on the ground.
Although Lee was better than most people know in submissions.....he trained them in a day where almost no one knew what to look for or how to avoid them.
Kind of like Royce Gracie in the early days. BJJ and submissions are very, very easy to execute against other fighting styles......but today almost everyone who trains in some sort of MMA learns BJJ. Executing correct submissions is much, much harder than it was. Every manipulation, jointplacement, leverage opportunity, and interupted blood vessel has to be perfect, since there is a counter for everything.
If I catch someone in an arm bar or Kimora and they are not trained....its "game over". If they have trained for a while - its the first move that is only used to set up a submission 6, or 7 counters later.
Bruce lee, Royce Gracie, and all the earlier guys didnt have to compete in that world.
Evey watching the earliest UFC again years later, its amazing how fast and how far the sport has evolved - some of those guys wouldnt survive today - and they were the best of the best back then. In fact, the sport evolved right past almost every one of them that tried to stay in the game.
Did you ever hear of Terry Giles...they called him Scary Terry in the 80's and 90's.....his grapple skills were equal to his striking, but in 95% of his fights, he knocked the opponent out in the first 20 to 30 seconds.
When Gracie began the first UFC, Giles tried to get in, but was refused on the grounds that he was a pro....Gracie knew Giles would eat up all the competitors and Gracie as well.
Regarding the old time champions that knew or trained with Giles, I was out with my wife and Terry was with his wife, at a restaurant once in Lake Worth, a Sushie place.... Bill Wallace came in ( Superfoot Bill Wallace), did a double then triple take, then came over to our table and sat down with us so he could chat with Terry for a while....
ALmost every fighter in the first few UFC's was a professional.
Im not saying that your guy wasnt very good - but - the Gracies were looking high and low for competition........There are all sorts of "could of, should of, would of" about different people form the early days..........all I can judge by is what I have seen and who actually fought. By UFC 2 - there was so much money at stake, they were begging for anyone with a vale tudo or a japanese no rules fighting background to get involved.
There are hundreds of "the guy that was unknown and would have beat anyone".......
BTW - in that era - Royce was NOT supposed to fight in the first UFCs.....but after he won 1 - they wanted to keep a tradition. He wasnt the best Gracie at the time.
Yea I can't find a mention of this giles guy on the web. Not youtube..
Wrestlers/BJJ..Boxers. If you can do those three well you generally smash people.
Theres a reason why theres practically no purebred stylists in MMA today and thats because they all lost, horribly, to people with a more complete skillset.
There is a few very good standup fighters who does well in MMA, but they do so because they are extremely good at not getting taken down - which means their understanding of grappling is also good, although they might not be submission artists..
Speaking of Royce Gracie, he has something in common with Ken Shamrock - they where both in the MOST BORING FIGHT OF ALL TIMES!
36 minutes of the "fight of all times" turned into a bout so boring you'd want to tear your damn eyes out..
AKA Chuck liddell, until he got figured out.
I agree. Todays fighters have to be very well rounded and unpredictable.
But, without a ground game (BJJ or wrestling), even if its just as a defense - then you dont really have a shot.
Yeah, although Chuck Lidell haven't really been active in a while, hes a prime example of such.
Lose 5/6 and that tends to happen (not being active). I might not be 100% accurate, but I think thats how he went out.
I had an opportunity to interview Royce Gracie a few days ago for Television. I asked him how would he do against Bruce Lee. He replied "If Bruce was alive today we would not be fighting. He would be my student." He then substantiated this by saying that Bruce Lees closest flag bearer Dan Inosanto has been a student of Gracie Jiu-jitsu for a long time now.
Bas Rutten was also asked about Bruce Lees capability in the octagon and he replied by saying that If Bruce Lee rose from the grave and stepped into the octagon he would lose. But that is not what made Bruce Lee Bruce Lee. He was about evolution and adapting new things. He would pick up Brazilian Jiujitsu and become so damn good at making that his own that he would be able to re-invent his own self as an MMA fighter up there with other legends like GSP and Anderson Silva.
---------- Post added March 27th, 2013 at 11:58 AM ----------
As a Jiu jitsu practitioner I sometimes feel that the age of Jiu jitsu (grappling) domination is over and now its back to striking all over again. There was a time when grapplers were dominating everyone and they seemed so invincible that the very credibility of striking was put to stake. I still have those early articles from martial arts magazines when BJJ community would ask questions like "How many real fights have you seen that were decided by a kick?" Back in those days the answer to that question was zero! In those early days of UFC no one delivered a kick.
Now very rarely do you see good submissions. Most fights are decided by striking. Pure Jiujitsu fighters like Roger Gracie are getting destroyed and championship grapplers like BJ Penn have to win by punching and kicking knockouts. This I find to be so against the claims Jiu jitsu cummunity was making in the early days when they were marketing themselves.
Today its a game with 3 dimensions. 1. Striking 2. Takedowns 3. Ground game Since no one is 100% in all three of these so its all about exploiting the holes in the other guys game.
The real question is: which MMA fighter and which karate fighter. I agree if you don't have a ground game, you are at a disadvantage... unless you can defend the takedown.
I think maybe the reason why the ground and pound and standup is as "big" in MMA as it is at this point is the fact that everyone does have some grappling and takedown defence. Since they do the one thats able to control the ring and deliver the most damage is the one that tend to get the win.
There is still some great grappling out there every now and then though. Too bad one of the good ones has said in two post-fight inteviews after losses that he's fed up and will retire..
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