In Coz: You, Your Buddy, Your Group and Your DM. Who should do what?

[Ron Lee]

You practice things in a controlled environment so that when you have to do them it's second nature, no panicking?

Good point. Let's examine that in relation to solo/buddy teams divers going to the surface separately from the starting dive group.

Does anyone expect the majority of new divers to carry and deploy a surface marker prior to surfacing alone or as a buddy pair? I do not.

It appears to me that there is improvement needed when it comes to the safety of divers in Cozumel. I submit as evidence the lost female diver on Santa Rosa last month (March 28?) and the deceased woman on the C-53 dive in November 2011.

My opinion is that the Cozumel dive ops should meet and discuss how to drastically reduce the recurrence of this type event. The goal should be ZERO non-medical deaths and ZERO missing divers.

Since a catchy name is often associated with a program you could call it something like:

1) Novice Diver Safety Program
2) No Diver Left Behind.

This is possibly two elements. One deals with the need to provide suitable guidance, real-world training/experience building and an improved safety net for novice divers. The second applies to everyone and is designed to minimize the chance that any diver goes missing and never found.

The elements of these program(s) may be a multi-tiered set of policies and DM policy changes. Some may be transparent to most divers. How it is done may vary between dive shops. The reported Blue XtSea policy of having a dedicated DM for folks with less than 15 dives is one possible component. Coming up as a group is another option. Some dive ops may already be there or just need minor adjustment in policies.

Unless the Cozumel dive ops are willing to accept TBD diver deaths (non-medical) and TBD missing divers a year, then they should be taking serious and immediate action to discuss this and develop a standard set of policies (a la carte selection by the dive ops), implement them this year so we can start seeing a reduction in these events.

Those who subscribe to the program can note that on their website and divers can use free market actions to use in selecting a dive op.

 

[ScubaSteve1962]

No. I'm saying what I said: that one cannot ascend to 15 feet in a 12-foot pool.

uhmmm okay

---------- Post added April 7th, 2012 at 01:18 PM ----------

Good point. Let's examine that in relation to solo/buddy teams divers going to the surface separately from the starting dive group.

Does anyone expect the majority of new divers to carry and deploy a surface marker prior to surfacing alone or as a buddy pair? I do not.

It appears to me that there is improvement needed when it comes to the safety of divers in Cozumel. I submit as evidence the lost female diver on Santa Rosa last month (March 28?) and the deceased woman on the C-53 dive in November 2011.

My opinion is that the Cozumel dive ops should meet and discuss how to drastically reduce the recurrence of this type event. The goal should be ZERO non-medical deaths and ZERO missing divers.

Since a catchy name is often associated with a program you could call it something like:

1) Novice Diver Safety Program
2) No Diver Left Behind.

This is possibly two elements. One deals with the need to provide suitable guidance, real-world training/experience building and an improved safety net for novice divers. The second applies to everyone and is designed to minimize the chance that any diver goes missing and never found.

The elements of these program(s) may be a multi-tiered set of policies and DM policy changes. Some may be transparent to most divers. How it is done may vary between dive shops. The reported Blue XtSea policy of having a dedicated DM for folks with less than 15 dives is one possible component. Coming up as a group is another option. Some dive ops may already be there or just need minor adjustment in policies.

Unless the Cozumel dive ops are willing to accept TBD diver deaths (non-medical) and TBD missing divers a year, then they should be taking serious and immediate action to discuss this and develop a standard set of policies (a la carte selection by the dive ops), implement them this year so we can start seeing a reduction in these events.

Those who subscribe to the program can note that on their website and divers can use free market actions to use in selecting a dive op.

If Aldora Divers follow the guidelines that's stated in my previous post this is a start. Deploy the smb, send the diver up and wait until the boat pick them up before continuing the dive. In Key Largo on a drift dive, the solo diver would make an okay sign around the dive flag rope, ascend to their safety stop, then continue to the surface and signal the dive boat, stay with the flag (which keeps you with the group) until the dive boat acknowledges them and swim away from the flag to be picked up. I'm told this wouldn't work in Coz because of the reef structure, but it seem Aldora Divers does something similar with the smb. Would be nice if all the dive ops would do something along these lines. We all say that we want to be good dive buddy's, but how many would be happy ending a dive after 15mins because the newbie (which was me a few months ago) sucked up all their air? I know I wasn't happy having to end the dive for everyone else.

 

[Splitlip]

As I've stated elsewhere, I believe shooting a DSMB should be taught as part of open water. The training agencies "compressed" the training so much, there is plenty of room to do so IMO. And one local includes it in their AOW and deep specialty.

I was hit by a boat in the late 70's. I toyed with several ideas for signaling from below. Best I could come up with was an orange glove on a 7 ft poll spear, lol.

 

[flots am]

As I've stated elsewhere, I believe shooting a DSMB should be taught as part of open water. The training agencies "compressed" the training so much, there is plenty of room to do so IMO. And one local includes it in their AOW and deep specialty.

It would be cool, but would require going back to classes that were long enough to actually teach buoyancy. (which wouldn't break my heart)

There's no way to teach someone how to remain neutral while inflating a lift bag, before they can remain neutral without one.

flots.

 

[ScubaSteve1962]

It would be cool, but would require going back to classes that were long enough to actually teach buoyancy. (which wouldn't break my heart)

There's no way to teach someone how to remain neutral while inflating a lift bag, before they can remain neutral without one.

flots.

Is buoyancy something that can really be taught in classes, or is it something that comes with time and practice. the PADI Peak Performance Buoyancy manual, spending a lot of time in the pool, and this site really helped me. Scuba Buoyancy Masterclass 1of9 - Buoyancy Control for Scuba Divers -Scuba Tech Philippines

 

[flots am]

Is buoyancy something that can really be taught in classes, or is it something that comes with time and practice.

Buoyancy and trim are easy to teach in a pool. It just takes a little time, which is something that a lot of instructors don't have. In fact, it's even easier to teach and learn in a pool than in deeper open water, because vertical movement in shallow water produces a greater percentage of pressure change, and has a greater effect on whatever air is in the BC.

If you really want to practice, try to maintain neutral buoyancy in the shallow end of the pool without moving, touching the bottom or breaking the surface. If you can do it in 4', 60' will be easy.

flots.

 

[boulderjohn]

No. I'm saying what I said: that one cannot ascend to 15 feet in a 12-foot pool.

I guess I am missing the point here. Please explain why that matters.

Is buoyancy something that can really be taught in classes, or is it something that comes with time and practice. the PADI Peak Performance Buoyancy manual, spending a lot of time in the pool, and this site really helped me. Scuba Buoyancy Masterclass 1of9 - Buoyancy Control for Scuba Divers -Scuba Tech Philippines

A god class can go a very long way. I suspect that many (not all) of the people who just say it can be learned from diving don't realize that they themselves still have a way to go.

 

[boulderjohn]

The problem with shooting a bag, whether with a reel or a spool, is that it really requires 3 hands to do it easily. Those of us who only have 2 hands have to work a while to get the mechanics right so that they are not dragged up with the SMB when it is inflated. Pool practice is great for that.

 

[gypsyjim]

I am not sure why shooting the bag requires three hands, but it does require practice that is for sure. We learned about a foot above a platform in the quarry, and we critiqued about any change in our buoyancy/level off that platform. It was good practice.

At depth, you attach the bag to the reel, if it is not already set up. Assure that the reel line is clear, and ready to unroll freely. Then put just a touch of air in the SMB, and then you exhale a bit to counter the increased buoyancy of the SMB, while you let the SMB begin it's ascent, controlling the speed of your reel and line to avoid knots.

You first little spurt of air into the SMB is going to expand and fill the bag as it ascends, and unless you attempt to stop the bag, or snag your line, it will not effect your buoyancy at all.

It really is a pretty simple exercise/operation, once you learn to monitor your depth as you perform the operation.

 

[ScubaSteve1962]

Buoyancy and trim are easy to teach in a pool. It just takes a little time, which is something that a lot of instructors don't have. In fact, it's even easier to teach and learn in a pool than in deeper open water, because vertical movement in shallow water produces a greater percentage of pressure change, and has a greater effect on whatever air is in the BC.

If you really want to practice, try to maintain neutral buoyancy in the shallow end of the pool without moving, touching the bottom or breaking the surface. If you can do it in 4', 60' will be easy.

flots.

I do it in 3 ft shallow end, and it help tremendously, I went from being the first back on the boat, 20 to 25 min and sometimes buddy breathing to being the last on the boat 45 to 50 min with 700 psi left in my tank, I still know I have a long way to go, but that is where practicing gets you, and with the help of you guys, there is a lot to be learned and shared with others. what I meant about being taught in class, my first problem was anxiety when I hit the water, and the second was proper weighting. Without a wetsuit I sink like rock, but put on a 3 mil shorty and I cant go down

---------- Post added April 7th, 2012 at 06:52 PM ----------

I guess I am missing the point here. Please explain why that matters.



A god class can go a very long way. I suspect that many (not all) of the people who just say it can be learned from diving don't realize that they themselves still have a way to go.

I don't know of any in my area that have a class on that, you just go to the LDS and buy the manual, get in some practice and do the dives. But I take advice from you guys, and people when I'm out diving. And luckily my LDS gives me pool time and air for free since I got all my equipment from him and he's 10 mins away from my house which gives me plenty of time to practice :cool2: