Is AOW necessary?

Should Advanced Open water be required?

  • Yes

    Votes: 27 33.3%
  • No

    Votes: 20 24.7%
  • Not if a diver can prove sufficient experience

    Votes: 15 18.5%
  • An ''Evaluation'' type course should be offered that could award the AOW Cert

    Votes: 11 13.6%
  • Other, please explain below

    Votes: 8 9.9%

  • Total voters
    81

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AOW provides a structured approach to improving your dive skills under the supervision of an instructor, and hopefully a good one. Having a lot of experience and a large number of dives where you have fine tuned your bad habits does not make someone a good diver. Conversely, getting an AOW certification doesn't necessarily mean that you are a greatly improved diver. The path to MSD or DM is not that long that one would need to skip AOW.
Most people don't give a damn about becoming MSD or DM. As such, AOW is completely unnecessary to do the diving that most people want to do. As for rescue, I don't think it should be a requirement, and though it actually ISN'T a requirement for PADI or NAUI, every PADI shop will insist that it is. Quite annoying for those of us who want to take rescue but aren't interested in AOW.

CAN it make you a better diver? Probably, with the right student and instructor. Is it more often just a money generating scheme for shops and agencies? Yes, I think so.
 
I put other because in a perfect world (well my perfect world) I think the AOW curriculum should be part of the OW training. Not practical given the business model, I'm sure, but from my perspective most of what we teach in OW is "what if's" that most divers will hopefully not have to use and some basic skills and then issue a learner's permit. AOW gives a brand new diver (if taken after OW) 5 more dives to focus on actual diving under an instructor's supervision while learning more about "real" diving (as opposed to training dives). The combination, for a brand new diver, would create a much more complete OW education. I think it's easy further into a dive career to forget how educational (sometimes painfully!) those first dives after your OW cert are, so being able to use those as more educational experiences is a big plus in my mind.

After that, for someone who has the experience should it be required? As someone above said if you don't have proof of qualification to do a specific dive then it puts the burden on the dive op to assess your readiness which doesn't seem realistic to me.
 
It really does depend on the aow class itself. The ones that are tours or "tastes" of advanced dives are pretty much worthless. Your basic skills need to be down before taking a good aow class. A better choice is to just dive with your instructor, a good dm, or an experienced diver. I don't charge potential aow students to dive with me. That's a bs way of making a few bucks. I'd rather get in a few dives with someone before taking their money. Sometimes I require it if I don't know the person and need to assess their skills before allowing them to take my aow class. Some of us have pre-class requirements beyond ow and a valid visa or mastercard that must be met before subjecting a student to the aow class we offer. The avg ow student out of most classes I see today would fail my aow class.

I only offer 7 different dives and all of them require new skills, task loading, and classroom time. No self study, fill out a quiz, maybe go over it and then dive.

If I have not taught the student we need to go over rescue skills that are required in ow for my agency. I take a different approach in recommending con ed. I like the ow, some dives on their own, UWNav,more dives, rescue, and then aow. Putting aow before rescue is shortsighted as the aow card as has ready been noted gives people access to sites and conditions where rescue skills could come into play fast. Allowing a diver with 4 or 5 dives to go to 90-100 feet without some rescue skills is stupid IMO.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9550 using Tapatalk
 
For recreational diving, AOW is essential knowledge to be equipped with to operate safely in most dive conditions. My 2 cents ...
 
I waited 40 years to get my AOW cert... mainly because my Los Angeles County OW cert allowed me to dive to 130 ft and covered what is now considered AOW and Rescue. However, not everyone recognized the LAC c-card so I did PADI AOW on the GBR just to have a card people would accept without questioning me.

Given the lack of thorough training in most OW cert classes, I consider AOW absolutely necessary, a rescue diver strongly recommended just to get new divers to a level where they are reasonably well equipped to deal with the activity.
 
I think experience should only count when diving on a charter boat. If a diver can show logged deep dives with in the last 6 months he should be allowed to dive deep. When it comes to certifications I think you need to follow the steps OW, ADV OW, First Responder, Rescue and so on.

Here is an example:
Say you were allowed to go from OW to Rescue Diver. You and some friends are diving on a deep wreck at night and you experience your first emergency a diver/friend that needs to be rescued. You as the Rescue diver will need to know all the rules that apply to wreck diving, night diving, First Responder, and your Rescue skills to save this person.
 
The open water course should be comprehensive enough that AOW is not needed.
 
I think experience should only count when diving on a charter boat. If a diver can show logged deep dives with in the last 6 months he should be allowed to dive deep. When it comes to certifications I think you need to follow the steps OW, ADV OW, First Responder, Rescue and so on.

Here is an example:
Say you were allowed to go from OW to Rescue Diver. You and some friends are diving on a deep wreck at night and you experience your first emergency a diver/friend that needs to be rescued. You as the Rescue diver will need to know all the rules that apply to wreck diving, night diving, First Responder, and your Rescue skills to save this person.

:confused:

If you only have OW and Rescue ... what are you doing on a deep wreck at night? That's called diving beyond your level of training, and is generally considered an unsafe way to dive.

Furthermore, AOW isn't going to train you how to do deep wreck night dives anyway ... it gives you very little exposure to deep diving, and none on wrecks unless you specifically elect a wreck dive ... and even that is nothing more than an introductory dive.

The biggest problem with AOW is one you just assumed ... that it somehow "qualifies" you to do these more challenging dives. It does not ... nor does it even pretend to. It's an experience course, designed to give you an introductory level of exposure to those types of conditions. Until you get more comprehensive training or experience, you shouldn't be doing deep wreck night dives ... that's tossing multiple challenges at someone who's barely been exposed to dealing with them one at a time.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
Excellent thread ! Lots of varied thought about cost, experience, training, the diver (student) and the Instructor. Agencies vary also.

On costs.... if I'm teaching, I should be paid for my time and experience to pass that on to someone else, period. Understand that if you speak to any of my students, you'll understand they get way more than what they pay $ wise. So those that say it's just another way to make money, you're right, it is.

On Training.... I see those that say that what's taught in AOW, should be in OW. Not so. The "average" new diver, again average I said, is not as advanced as you may think in their personal abilities. They are taking on a lot of info and tasks.

On Experience..... I have many folks come to me for AOW and Rescue that did not do their OW certs with me. They all are required to take a "free" Refresher with me before I'll move them forward in training. Many can't plan a dive, assemble their equipment or even clear a mask during the Refresher.

Just because someone has lots of dives, does not mean they know what they are doing or are diving using safe practices. I see it every day.

On the Diver .... Divers vary widely in their abilities. Pretty simple statement, but says it all. Some can learn as if by magic, some get it with a min. of instruction and there's those that "just don't or can't get it", no matter what you do. Remember the average diver I spoke of....

The Instructor.... The key to all of this. We could speak volumes here about the good ones, the bad ones, the money makers, the "Ex-SEALs" so on and so forth.....

So... my .02 is.

When you take an "Average" OW student, blend in a Refresher of OW Scuba Skills, add AOW Knowledge Reviews and Tasks Exercises, enjoy the required Dives.... maybe add a dash of Nitrox .... you'll have a pretty good AOW diver that most other divers would be willing to dive with.
 
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For recreational diving, AOW is essential knowledge to be equipped with to operate safely in most dive conditions. My 2 cents ...
I guess I am a little confused, what "essential" knowledge is provided by the AOW course? For that matter, what specific knowledge of any sort is provided?
 
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