is this class worth it...Advanced Buoyancy Clinic (ABC)?

[DevonDiver]

There is nothing they can teach you in that course that cannot be learned right here for free.

True. The issue, however, is efficiency of learning.

Why struggle through your first 100-200 dives refining your buoyancy and risking mishaps.... when a good instructor can help you make the same progress in a small handful of dives?

....for the comparable cost of a mid-range pair of fins?

Of course, a mentor/experienced diver might be able to assist just as well as an instructor. There's no guarantee of that though - being a good diver is not the same as being a good instructor.

... and not everyone has access to an awesome mentor, willing to give their time and expertise for free.... which is where an instructor is useful... as they ARE available... at a small cost.

 

[Rich Keller]

100-200 dives? You only need one dive, in the environment you are going to be operating in, not in a pool. If you have time to take the course you can put an hour or less in at a shore dive site and work out what weight you need to be neutral with different combinations of your equipment. Once you know that you can decide where to place the weights if you chose to integrate. All the information you need can be found here, in a book or from a dive buddy. That being said if you feel you need someone to hold your hand while you do this then by all means pay for the course.

---------- Post added ----------

... and you just validated my answer ... you can only learn buoyancy control in the water.

Reading about something isn't learning it ... if it were, everyone coming out of OW would have perfect buoyancy control ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I think we can all agree that this needs to be done in the water. The question is do you need someone to hold your hand while you are doing it? My opinion is that most people do not.

 

[RJP]

The question is do you need someone to hold your hand while you are doing it? My opinion is that most people do not.

With as many dives as you have, I would think you would have noticed that "most people" have pretty poor buoyancy skills. I wonder why they haven't been ably to learn this on their own.

 

[howlinghooves]

Practice is the best way to get your buoyancy dialed it. Going to a dive site with little terrain and just practicing with your breathing, not using your arms etc. Being properly weighted is the first step. I can honestly say I have mastered my buoyancy and diving now is like a dream. I went from 26lbs of lead to 6 pounds but this was over 100 dives. Changing to a HP steel 80 from Al 80 made a big difference but I did not change any other gear except my wetsuit is older and more compressed. Some people will never achieve it unless they work at it and if they are comfortable kicking up the bottom, flapping their arms around scaring off the fish and being exhausted when exiting the water it will not happen. When you feel it for the first time its like WOW what a difference and from then on finding it at the beginning of the dive and adjusting as your air depletes and your dive gets shallower becomes second nature. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Rich Keller]

With as many dives as you have, I would think you would have noticed that "most people" have pretty poor buoyancy skills. I wonder why they haven't been ably to learn this on their own.

I am not saying people do not need to learn. I am saying if they have been trained properly to begin with they should have all the basic skills needed to work this out on their own with a little advice.

 

[RJP]

I went from 26lbs of lead to 6 pounds but this was over 100 dives.

I think the picture taken of me below was my logged dive #19. It was taken in 2006 at Stingray City at the end of a 60min dive in about 12ft of water. Logged Dives #5 and #6 for me were in a Peak Performance Buoyancy class taught by a phenomenal instructor.

I suppose I could have figured it out on my own in another 81 dives and an additional year or two of reading ScubaBoard.

 

[The Chairman]

The most essential ingredient in learning buoyancy and trim is the desire of the student to excel. A good instructor can help you flatten that learning curve, but if you WANT to be flat and neutral, you'll figure it out, one way or the other. The best part about the internet, and ScubaBoard in particular, is that the very concept of trim and neutral buoyancy are presented to the diver sometimes for the very first time. Becoming aware of the need is the first step... the rest is just details and practice.

 

[DevonDiver]

I am not saying people do not need to learn. I am saying if they have been trained properly to begin with they should have all the basic skills needed to work this out on their own with a little advice.

Most entry-level courses are 4 dives. During those dives, the student has a vast learning curve - predominantly occupied with practicing contingency protocols, gaining a basic operational familiarity with their kit and developing the rudiments of situational awareness. Buoyancy, trim and weighting are squeezed in there also - but not the total focus of the dive, nor the product of many 'in-water minutes' of rehearsal.

Without wanting to degenerate this debate into a cronic 'OW isn't long enough' diatribe - can we agree that, as it stands, most OW courses do not offer sufficient training or focus to enable 'the average diver' to achieve a refined and precise level of buoyancy control?

Therefore, the a newly qualified diver (who does not have access to a mentor) has the opportunity to conduct specific, measurable and focused training on buoyancy/trim/weighting - and this represents the most efficient method of developing refined and precise skills within a limited time-scale and minimal budget.

100-200 dives? You only need one dive, in the environment you are going to be operating in, not in a pool.

That obviously depends upon what standard of 'refined and precise' you are using as a benchmark. I doubt that you are envisioning the same standard as what could be expected as a result from a focused training clinic/course with a capable instructor.

I've been diving 20+ years... and still find that I can make improvements to my precision skills...and still practice such skills regularly.

Where exactly are you drawing the line at 'no further improvement necessary'?

I'm getting the gist that you're under-estimating the goals and outcomes of the sort of course being discussed.

I think we can all agree that this needs to be done in the water. The question is do you need someone to hold your hand while you are doing it?

It's not a case of having someone "hold your hand".

It's about the benefit of effective feedback and having direct access to transferable experience.

If nothing else, it's a 'road map' to further development on one's own. As you say, it is "in the water" that counts... and that 'road map' needs to be a tangible in-water thing also.

My opinion is that most people do not.

My opinion, based on 20 years of diving - having encountered 000's of divers or varying experience - is the opposite.

IMHO, most people primarily benefit from being taught/shown - rather than entirely 'working it out for themselves'. Especially where efficiency/speed-of-learning is considered. Not just in scuba... but in any pursuit, academic or practical.

 

[BluewaterSail]

Like most courses, what you get out of it depends alot on the skills and approach of the instructor.

When I took PADI Peak Bouyancy, I don't think that I got alot out of it. A little, but not alot. I believe with some other PADI instructors, like some on the board, I would have gotten more out of it.

I really learned about control of trim and bouyancy through GUE Primer.

Check out the instructor, try to talk to former students.

From my experience, the use of video made a huge difference in being able to really understand what I was doing, and taking steps to improve it.

 

[BLoaf]

Hell no it's not worth it. Just get dice experience.