Latex seals breaking down
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jridg
Contributor
I began my fusion life with seal saver - had no issues. After I had my neck seal replaced due to a sizing issue, I continued to use seal saver with zero issues. After a while I switched to tribolube SC - this is when I began to get the goo problem on the outside of the neck and wrist seals. I noticed that after the tribolube 'dried' the seals would be sticky. So, I switched back to talc and was able to arrest the deterioration for quite some time - however, the damage was done and I am now having to get a new neck seal (after well over 100 dives). Again, my deterioration has been solely on the outside of the seals.
I am convinced that some of the products we are applying to the seals to protect them may be causing problems. Tribolube SC and UV tech - IN MY OPINION - are not suitable for use on latex seals. I have only my own experience to back this up.
I am convinced that some of the products we are applying to the seals to protect them may be causing problems. Tribolube SC and UV tech - IN MY OPINION - are not suitable for use on latex seals. I have only my own experience to back this up.
There were several threads on this topic, and I forgot this one existed. I will give a quick summary of what I know.
I experimented by putting a wide variety of products in contact with squares from uncontaminated sections a White's seal that had become gooey. I could not produce the problem with anything. This included copper, which the manufacturer said was the problem. I also tried to some degree a biological solution by putting goo from the contaminated section onto the uncontaminated section.. I could not reproduce the problem with any kind of potential contaminating agent I could think of.
A chemist I talked to said that the manufacturer's statement that it was caused by copper contamination was "outrageous." He said it could not possibly be true, and they certainly had to have the expertise to know it was not true.
A White's Fusion that the shop with which I am associated had almost totally in storage developed it on both wrists last week.
I think the possibility of a biological contaminate, especially a biofilm, is still possible because the quality of my experimentation in that area was not great (lack of equipment). and because a biological entity could have died before I tried to use it to contaminate a new area. I don't think it is likely, though.
I therefore go back to what both chemists I consulted said: the likelihood is that the process used to create the latex by the manufacturer was in adequate.
I experimented by putting a wide variety of products in contact with squares from uncontaminated sections a White's seal that had become gooey. I could not produce the problem with anything. This included copper, which the manufacturer said was the problem. I also tried to some degree a biological solution by putting goo from the contaminated section onto the uncontaminated section.. I could not reproduce the problem with any kind of potential contaminating agent I could think of.
A chemist I talked to said that the manufacturer's statement that it was caused by copper contamination was "outrageous." He said it could not possibly be true, and they certainly had to have the expertise to know it was not true.
A White's Fusion that the shop with which I am associated had almost totally in storage developed it on both wrists last week.
I think the possibility of a biological contaminate, especially a biofilm, is still possible because the quality of my experimentation in that area was not great (lack of equipment). and because a biological entity could have died before I tried to use it to contaminate a new area. I don't think it is likely, though.
I therefore go back to what both chemists I consulted said: the likelihood is that the process used to create the latex by the manufacturer was in adequate.
Nasty uncomfortable and short-lived things! Switch to neoprene and you'll never regret it.
MarkH
Contributor
My latex neck seal on my new drysuit lasted 8 months before it dissolved. When I bought a replacement seal, I noticed that all the seals in the bin had manufacture dates stamped on them Some of them had been sitting there for over 5 years. Since latex naturally degrades over time, I wonder haw many drysuits are sold with seals that are at the end of their lifespan. I wish I could go back to neoprene, but since I'm cheap I choose the $15-30 latex over the $200 neoprene.
Neoprene seals don't cost anything like that. I have several drysuits, including one that I changed all the seals on from latex to neoprene. I don't remember the cost now, but it wasn't much more than for replacement latex seals.
MarkH
Contributor
airsix
Contributor
There are definitely cost variables. Neoprene seals don't cost $200. That's the cost to have the seal installed, and it's not much different than the cost of having a $35 latex seal installed. In fact if you have Whites install a neck seal for you the cost is the same whether it's latex of neoprene. I asked.
I have a friend who just made and installed his own neoprene neck seal. The neoprene remnant he picked up only cost a couple of dollars. He made a pattern from another seal and spent a few dollars on neoprene cement. Total cost was less than $15. His suit is neoprene, so installation was straightforward.
My situation is different. I dive a fusion, which is a urethane based material. Urethane cements don't bond to neoprene, and neoprene cements don't bond to urethane. I'm always up for a good DIY and have done my own latex seal replacements for the past 25 years, but when I investigated the process required to bond neoprene to urethane I packed up the suit and paid the $200 to have the pros do it (they send the neoprene to a third party that applies a chemical treatment to the joint surface to facilitate bonding to urethane).
Those here who know me can attest that I rarely back away from a DIY opportunity. If I thought there was any chance I could have done it myself I would have tried, but like Kenny said you gotta know when to fold 'em.
I have a friend who just made and installed his own neoprene neck seal. The neoprene remnant he picked up only cost a couple of dollars. He made a pattern from another seal and spent a few dollars on neoprene cement. Total cost was less than $15. His suit is neoprene, so installation was straightforward.
My situation is different. I dive a fusion, which is a urethane based material. Urethane cements don't bond to neoprene, and neoprene cements don't bond to urethane. I'm always up for a good DIY and have done my own latex seal replacements for the past 25 years, but when I investigated the process required to bond neoprene to urethane I packed up the suit and paid the $200 to have the pros do it (they send the neoprene to a third party that applies a chemical treatment to the joint surface to facilitate bonding to urethane).
Those here who know me can attest that I rarely back away from a DIY opportunity. If I thought there was any chance I could have done it myself I would have tried, but like Kenny said you gotta know when to fold 'em.
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You should have called us first then
You can take Neopene cement, and coat about about 1" wide around the seal where it will go on the suit. After you have 2-3 layers of cement on the neoprene seal, you can take the dry adhesive tape we sell and adhere that to the neo seal. After that, apply to the suit, clamp down and position exactly where you want it...then heat it all up Perfect adhesionSimilar threads
