Lesson Learned. Ways to avoid this in the future?

[MarkHerm]

Good job! You made a very good decision to finally call the "planned" dive. It is a good lesson to actually dismiss a dive because you are not comfortable with your or your buddy's skills. A lot of people will just continue no matter what and I think this easily can lead to disaster.

My buddy was a PADI rescue diver.
....
"wow you have that many dives and a RD cert and you don't have your own rags or spg's?"
....
I kept my mouth shut because he had a "PPB Specialty"
...
but I kept my mouth shut because he had more certs than I did.

I believe here is something to avoid in the future. Certs don't mean that much in diving IMO. They are heavily instructor and conditions dependent. So being a AOWD, RD and even a dive master or master diver (or instructor) sometimes tells little about the skills and the mindset of that diver. When I am in doubt about an unknown diver's capacity I'd opt for a very easy first dive or avoid this diver all together. I want my buddy to be a helpful resource when needed... not to be a liability. Hence I tend to be very picky about choosing my buddies (with good results so far )


Have fun diving!

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I think the OP did a terrible job. He assumed that someone could dive in 3-4 waves off a rocky beach in cold water in bad vis and had never done ANY of that before....He made very poor decisions to even try to dive with an unknown person and apparently had some sort of belief that certifications equate to qualifications. They don't .. and this is just one more example of it.

The best I can tell, the dive should have been called based on the sea state alone.

The lesson learned should be.. unless you are confident that your unknown buddy has significant, recent experience in very similar diving conditions, then you should NOT trust them and first do an open water dive in EXTREMELY easy conditions, just to check them out.

 

[hawk44]

I think the OP did a terrible job. He assumed that someone could dive in 3-4 waves off a rocky beach in cold water in bad vis and had never done ANY of that before....He made very poor decisions to even try to dive with an unknown person and apparently had some sort of belief that certifications equate to qualifications. They don't .. and this is just one more example of it.

The best I can tell, the dive should have been called based on the sea state alone.

The lesson learned should be.. unless you are confident that your unknown buddy has significant, recent experience in very similar diving conditions, then you should NOT trust them and first do an open water dive in EXTREMELY easy conditions, just to check them out.

Let me reiterate a few things:
We had talked about doing this for 3 weeks. I asked him over and over about his experience and he said he had done it before. It was only after I got out of the water I found out he had not. It got to a point where I thought he was going to start getting mad because I kept asking over and over.

When we got down to the beach I asked him "do you want to go in right here" (the rocky area with the breakers) and he said yeah no problem. There was an area 150 further yards down that was easier to get in to. Because I had asked him before if he felt comfortable in those conditions and I knew I was fine in those conditions we got set to do the rocky entry.

This "unknown person" by the way is a guy on my football team who I've known for 3 years.

The sea state in Southern California is pretty nasty. I had gone over what we were planning to do with my step-dad--who is a retired NAUI divemaster and instructor who taught in New England--He had no problem with it as the conditions up there are very similar to down here. He went with us to the dive site and to give a final ok on the conditions and he did. He stayed up on the cliff tops and we walked down to the beach.

That being said, I do know now to never trust what anyone says and always get in a good open water dive with them just to get used to there style of diving and see if they back up what they say.

As for the snorkel debate, on normal open water rec dives it will will be there. For the project I am working on I will have it on my mask when we are swimming out but right before we go down, I will put it in the pocket with my backup mask because there is such a large risk of getting entangled down there and a snorkel gets easily hung up down there.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Do you think that a teenage football player is ever gonna just come out and say: I'm kinda scared, this is too rough for me.... I'm a pussy? It took me a long time to learn this lesson, but after seeing several instances where even dive instructors were completely unable to dive, I began to understand the reality of the situation. I remember one instructor was shaking like a leaf before a dive... You need to disregard certification cards and take an attitude of show me, don't tell me, if you want to avoid problems.

After decades of diving every weekend with many hundreds of people, I began to think I could wade through the BS. The guy said all the right stuff over many extensive discussions. However, this guy was totally full of crap.

He BS-ed me into a trip one time and he lied and lied and lied (even lied on a 20 hour long boat ride to the site which was a looong way from shore) and then when we were suited up and on the platform (30 seconds from the drop), he says "I'm kinda scared, I'm not used to diving past 120 feet, and I got really narced the last time I went this deep".

Of course most of this trip was supposed to be solo diving to 130 feet and I was going to do just ONE dive with him as a courtesy to make him more comfortable. The trip was a disaster.


Don't believe what people tell you!

 

[ScubaSteve1962]

It took me a long time to learn this lesson, but after seeing several instances where even dive instructors were completely unable to dive, I began to understand the reality of the situation.

He's 17 the other diver was 17, he's learning also, that's why he posted here. He's trying to get some answers, how often does a teenager ask for advice, we shouldn't berate them when they do, but try to give some constructive criticism. Just like it took you a long time seems like he's on the right track to learning it early.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

He's 17 the other diver was 17, he's learning also, that's why he posted here. He's trying to get some answers, how often does a teenager ask for advice, we shouldn't berate them when they do, but try to give some constructive criticism. Just like it took you a long time seems like he's on the right track to learning it early.

Well I did try to provide a clear example of where I (even with a lot more dives under my belt) made similar, very poor decisions about believing people about their abillity to dive.

 

[RonFrank]

Do not give up on your Buddy. Bailing on a dive is a very smart move even if he did not do it well. CA is not what I consider easy diving. I would suggest finding some experienced buddies. Scubaboard is a good place to find buddies. There used to be a group called the Beach Crabs but I am not sure they are still around.

Diving Mecca! If you haven't dived La Jolla Cove, you aren't a California Diver! Nice park, nice entry, and great diving await you. The area is protected, so the marine life take pleasure in taunting you. Drop by a local dive shop and ask about the seasonal conditions. Swells and rip tides can ruin your day.

These are all good dives. The boat dives are expensive as is a Ferry ride for a day but well worth it if you can get some scratch! Definitely check out La Jolla Cove or shores. Maybe a bit of a drive but good shore diving, easy entry, and will cost you a tank fill! When I was last there we had 20+ vis and that was summer. I have done these dives and recommend them all. I am also a big fan of the Peace dive boat out of Ventura (N of LA).

Scuba Shore Diving Site Page for: La Jolla Cove of California South, USA West

Dive California Scuba Live a Board Dive Boat

Scuba Shore Diving Site Page for: LA - Casino Point of California Mid, USA West

Peace Dive Boat

 

[ScubaSteve1962]

Well I did try to provide a clear example of where I (even with a lot more dives under my belt) made similar, very poor decisions about believing people about their abillity to dive.

yes, but your first sentence was still a little harsh, we're not talking 2 grown men who should have learned not to assume anything, but 2 teenagers who haven't even begun to learn life lessons, but think they know everything, just like most of us were at that age.

Hawk44 I'm not trying to be offensive just trying to get some of the posters to remember we were 17 once.

Do you think that a teenage football player is ever gonna just come out and say: I'm kinda scared, this is too rough for me.... I'm a pussy? It took me a long time to learn this lesson, but after seeing several instances where even dive instructors were completely unable to dive, I began to understand the reality of the situation. I remember one instructor was shaking like a leaf before a dive... You need to disregard certification cards and take an attitude of show me, don't tell me, if you want to avoid problems.

After decades of diving every weekend with many hundreds of people, I began to think I could wade through the BS. The guy said all the right stuff over many extensive discussions. However, this guy was totally full of crap.



He BS-ed me into a trip one time and he lied and lied and lied (even lied on a 20 hour long boat ride to the site which was a looong way from shore) and then when we were suited up and on the platform (30 seconds from the drop), he says "I'm kinda scared, I'm not used to diving past 120 feet, and I got really narced the last time I went this deep".

Of course most of this trip was supposed to be solo diving to 130 feet and I was going to do just ONE dive with him as a courtesy to make him more comfortable. The trip was a disaster.


Don't believe what people tell you!

We all learned this from life, I work in a field where you get people telling you all the time what they can do, but when it comes to doing it, they can't. He's learning that early, other poster have said never dive with this guy again, I say invite him along on some shallow safe dives with him and his dad and hopefully help him become the diver he thinks he is. If that doesn't work then move on.

 

[Shasta_man]

Unless you gained a lot of knowledge after the event and before you wrote this but your comments about how to dive it indicate much better training or experience than him. Besides a basic "I don't just go with it" attitude. The funniest part of this thread was that after a pretty clear tale of avoided disaster, the first two responses said, wow, that's tough...but man, don't wear a snorkel! With all the junk we already have on, I think the added entanglement hazard of a snorkel is around 1%.

 

[hawk44]

Unless you gained a lot of knowledge after the event and before you wrote this but your comments about how to dive it indicate much better training or experience than him. Besides a basic "I don't just go with it" attitude. The funniest part of this thread was that after a pretty clear tale of avoided disaster, the first two responses said, wow, that's tough...but man, don't wear a snorkel! With all the junk we already have on, I think the added entanglement hazard of a snorkel is around 1%.

Actually I felt about 100x better without the snorkel, all I do is when its time to go down I put it in my knife straps on the inside of my left leg, I didn't have a problem and my stepdad has not had a problem with doing that for 25+ years. I have a very streamlined system: BP/W with a slim doughnut solo wing, my main regulator a long hose tucked in the harness (pops out with a slight tug) backup is on a 22" and bungeed. everything for the research is pretty streamlined too and it's all in front of me so I can see what has gotten tangled. A snorkel is the most likely thing to get tangled for me as it is a 16" thing of plastic sitting vertical right next to my face... not the best. When we get to the surface all I have to do is pop it back on the mask and swim back to shore.