Let The Revolution Begin (Part Two)

[Chien]

I have read GDI's and Walter's training curriculum. I can see how each could be effective. Having a Master's Degree in Educational Leadership I wonder what other such programs and teaching styles are out there.

It also appears to me there is a mob mentality or bashing as it is referred to anytime DIR or PADI programs are discussed. Could someone please explain this and without bashing please? AND what of the other training agencies - What shall I expect of them?

 

[Walter]

It's not so much PADI bashing as a serious disagreement over what needs to be mastered in an OW class to produce a safe diver. Many of us believe PADI does not require all the skills necessary to reach that goal. Others believe PADI's standards are fine.

I think most agree GUE has fine standards, but some believe they are too rigid with regard to certain aspects of their program.

 

[GDI]

It's not so much PADI bashing as a serious disagreement over what needs to be mastered in an OW class to produce a safe diver. Many of us believe PADI does not require all the skills necessary to reach that goal. Others believe PADI's standards are fine.

I think most agree GUE has fine standards, but some believe they are too rigid with regard to certain aspects of their program.

Walter,
Agreed to some extent, If a instructor followed PADI's standards strictly to the letter they may have a challenge in producing safe divers. Within PADI like any agency there are differences in one instructor to the next. GUE with their DIR methodology states they are more standard from one instructor to another.
Are you suggesting the program I had written would not meet the needs of what has to be mastered to produce a safe diver. Understanding that I did not write the very detailed conduct of the skills exercises. Perhaps I am to military or to hard a## like?

 

[Snowbear]

... mob mentality or bashing as it is referred to anytime DIR or PADI programs are discussed.

Bullies have a need to pick on someone. Picking on someone who thinks, acts or looks different from them is easier to justify than doing the same to those they agree with.
That said, there are actually a few here who are genuinely trying to educate us ignorants and mostly do so without bashing or bullying. Of course, sometimes you have to wade through several pages of heated bashing to find the few good scraps to walk away with. wink

 

[dweeb]

Why on earth would you want your students to experience task loading or stress for the first time in the open water? Personally I feel that it's safer to introduce these issues in confined water where you can control the amount of stress and the reaction of the student.

Where did I say in open water? It's not allowed ANYWHERE in the course as a determinant of student passage.

 

[dweeb]

VO2 max
Pronunciation: "vE-O-'tü-'maks
Function: noun
: the maximum amount of oxygen the body can use during a specified period of time that depends on body weight and the strength of the lungs -- called also maximal oxygen consumption, maximal oxygen uptake, max VO2

It's a little more complicated than that. Lungs aren't the only factor - the oxygen has to get where it's needed. It's overall aerobic capacity.

 

[dweeb]

Assembly and disassembly is done starting in the classroom. there fore they get more than once each per session.

But not with significant time separation. Doing it 10 times with at least 2 days between iterations is better than doing it 100 times in a row for retention.

>The swim test above and below the water indicate the fitness level quite fine. Add in the treading of water with and without hands and a weight, all without breaks and you have a verification of fitness and VO2. Divers don't need to be fast they need to survive and endure.

But in swimming, time helps determine fitness. A person in lousy shape can kick along on their back at a snail's pace for quite a long time, especially if they have plenty of fat to float them.

>I have been involved in various training plans using various systems under various conditions for many years. I have been both a test subject and administrator for some of this "research " on human learning.

Then you know that separation between exposures is important to retention. BTW, the research I refer to is completely outside
the SCUBA training field.

>It seems that some of you feel this is a purely PADI outline and thus I can see the bashing starting to come.

No, I see people pointing out specific parts of your outline that they have issues with, and telling you why.

 

[GDI]

It's a little more complicated than that. Lungs aren't the only factor - the oxygen has to get where it's needed. It's overall aerobic capacity.

Hey dweeb, i thought this thread was dead? It is very complicated, the human system and how the body's oxygen content is used. I just was providing a definition

 

[dweeb]

At the 10 minute mark lift your hands up keep treading for another 3 minutes do not stop or lower your hands keep talking, pause receive a 10 lb weight, working with your buddy start treading water again except hold the 10 lb weight out of the water, don't let it touch or get wet, pass it off to your buddy back and forth

I daresay 95% of certified divers couldn't do this.
I'm all for it, but you're certainly limiting your market.
Also, if you MAKE them do this, and deny course passage based on failure or refusal to do this, you are absolutely violating PADI standards.

 

[dweeb]

Bullies have a need to pick on someone. Picking on someone who thinks, acts or looks different from them is easier to justify than doing the same to those they agree with.

You're foaming there. Save your ideological broadbrush for the presidential primaries. I've watched the controversy for decades and no one is bullying anyone. Why is it some people have to cast every conflict as a bully session?