Sounds like you need to go OOB on the retail end of things and get back to just having fun!
Let's see what the FTC has to say about vertical price restraints in the biz.
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You say that you "have to be an authorized dealer to service".
Whazzat? How come?
The heck with "blessing." What's that about? So you get "free" parts from places like Scubapro? Who cares - the overhaul kits aren't expensive, and the labor isn't free to the customer in any event.
They won't sell you parts? So what? You can get them overseas, just like you can the regs. They ARE for sale and available.
You need tools and such? Same deal.
You can't hold yourself out as an "authorized" service center, but who really cares? Me? Not if you fix it right. If you fix it wrong I don't care if you have a "certified" plaque in your shop either; I'm gonna come back and be STEAMING when my reg fails in the water right after you work on it.
You want to claim that you "can't" handle this or that? Well, that's illegal. Why don't you and the other shops band together, hire yourselves a lawyer, and own a manufacturer or two between you all when you're done. How come instead of playing hardball and refusing to cooperate, and serving your customers, you're far more interested in serving the manufacturer? Exactly who do you think you work for anyway? I'll give you a hint - its NOT Scubapro, Atomic, US Divers, Suunto or Sherwood!
You guys in the LDS biz had better get used to reality. $20 fills? You won't sell me any - I'll buy my own compressor between myself and a few diving friends, because in 50 dives it will have paid for itself. Yeah, its slower. So? 20 minutes to fill an 80 isn't bad, and besides, if I get industrious I can build a continuous mixer and blow any Nitrox percentage up to 40% or so I want in my tanks with no gruff, hassle or even needing to play the "tax system" games now in force.
And let's not kid ourselves. It IS a tax system. Nitrox cert? How come I can't test out of the class and just get the card? So you can make $150 off me? I had college physics, I understand the ideal gas law, and the rest is pretty simple, you know.
AOW? You gotta be kidding me. I'm taking it this weekend only because of the ops that have a "tax view" of the world and don't want you to dive without it on their boats. Locally its a non-issue - I have my own boat. On vacation it might not be though. 100' is "deep"? Huh? What 'ya smoking over there? I've been there already - that's not "deep"! "Wreck" doesn't involve anything more than swimming AROUND one? (No penetration)?! "Navigation" is primarily a compass thing - gee, I've had one on my boats since I was a child, and I know how to use them. Night/limited vis? Now THAT's actually something to learn - ok, 1 out of 4....
You think I'll EVER consider "joining the group" and becoming an instructor? What 'ya smoking over there? Become one with the Borg? No, my friend, resistance is not futile!
You want my business? Then listen up guys and dolls, because here's what it takes to get it in ANY line of work, no matter what it is that I'm buying today:
1. REAL technical service. If my reg is broken and needs fixed, I don't want to hear that you're busy. I want to have it fixed and I want a working one to use while you're working on mine. This means you need to have the parts IN STOCK and you need to have the manpower to do the service when I need it done, and if I want to go diving you might want to think about having a few loaners around. Sorry if that's inconvenient, but that's the facts.
2. REAL customer service. You want to sell me gear? Got one I can TRY FIRST? If I don't like it, can I return it after I get it wet and either get something else or a refund? NO? Why not? One of the supposed "real" advantages is local support. How come every shop I've ever been in only rents gear on the low end but wants to sell me high end stuff? How come if I want to buy a BC, I can't rent one of the same make/model first for a day? What's THAT about? Oh, by the way, I snow ski too, and you CAN rent high-end skis and bindings for a day - or boots - and use them - before you plunk down $1,000 on a new pair from that nice ski shop. But I CAN'T do the same with scuba gear. WHY? Because you guys don't provide REAL CUSTOMER SERVICE, that's why, and until you do you have exactly ZERO complaint when your business all dries up as people buy from LP and their clones!
I used to deal with this all the time. I sold a particular line of equipment. We charged a lot for it - far more than the mail order places, and awfully close to retail. We sold a LOT of these boxes, even though you could buy one for FAR less through mail-order.
You know why I got the business? Because I always had an extra one laying around, and if yours broke then you got MINE until I could either fix it in my shop or send it out and get it back - repaired. That "hot swap" offer was good 24x7x365, and I could and DID come into the office at 3:00 AM to get you that spare if you needed it. Yeah, that cost me money - that was a box that I couldn't sell as new when the models changed, since it had been out, used, and battered around a bit. So what? That's the cost of customer service, and its why I am entitled to my margins!
You're not entitled to your margins just by being around. You have to EARN them. To the extent that you try to do that by restraining trade instead of providing quality service you're going to hear me - and others - squawk.
Whazzat? How come?
The heck with "blessing." What's that about? So you get "free" parts from places like Scubapro? Who cares - the overhaul kits aren't expensive, and the labor isn't free to the customer in any event.
They won't sell you parts? So what? You can get them overseas, just like you can the regs. They ARE for sale and available.
You need tools and such? Same deal.
You can't hold yourself out as an "authorized" service center, but who really cares? Me? Not if you fix it right. If you fix it wrong I don't care if you have a "certified" plaque in your shop either; I'm gonna come back and be STEAMING when my reg fails in the water right after you work on it.
You want to claim that you "can't" handle this or that? Well, that's illegal. Why don't you and the other shops band together, hire yourselves a lawyer, and own a manufacturer or two between you all when you're done. How come instead of playing hardball and refusing to cooperate, and serving your customers, you're far more interested in serving the manufacturer? Exactly who do you think you work for anyway? I'll give you a hint - its NOT Scubapro, Atomic, US Divers, Suunto or Sherwood!
You guys in the LDS biz had better get used to reality. $20 fills? You won't sell me any - I'll buy my own compressor between myself and a few diving friends, because in 50 dives it will have paid for itself. Yeah, its slower. So? 20 minutes to fill an 80 isn't bad, and besides, if I get industrious I can build a continuous mixer and blow any Nitrox percentage up to 40% or so I want in my tanks with no gruff, hassle or even needing to play the "tax system" games now in force.
And let's not kid ourselves. It IS a tax system. Nitrox cert? How come I can't test out of the class and just get the card? So you can make $150 off me? I had college physics, I understand the ideal gas law, and the rest is pretty simple, you know.
AOW? You gotta be kidding me. I'm taking it this weekend only because of the ops that have a "tax view" of the world and don't want you to dive without it on their boats. Locally its a non-issue - I have my own boat. On vacation it might not be though. 100' is "deep"? Huh? What 'ya smoking over there? I've been there already - that's not "deep"! "Wreck" doesn't involve anything more than swimming AROUND one? (No penetration)?! "Navigation" is primarily a compass thing - gee, I've had one on my boats since I was a child, and I know how to use them. Night/limited vis? Now THAT's actually something to learn - ok, 1 out of 4....
You think I'll EVER consider "joining the group" and becoming an instructor? What 'ya smoking over there? Become one with the Borg? No, my friend, resistance is not futile!
You want my business? Then listen up guys and dolls, because here's what it takes to get it in ANY line of work, no matter what it is that I'm buying today:
1. REAL technical service. If my reg is broken and needs fixed, I don't want to hear that you're busy. I want to have it fixed and I want a working one to use while you're working on mine. This means you need to have the parts IN STOCK and you need to have the manpower to do the service when I need it done, and if I want to go diving you might want to think about having a few loaners around. Sorry if that's inconvenient, but that's the facts.
2. REAL customer service. You want to sell me gear? Got one I can TRY FIRST? If I don't like it, can I return it after I get it wet and either get something else or a refund? NO? Why not? One of the supposed "real" advantages is local support. How come every shop I've ever been in only rents gear on the low end but wants to sell me high end stuff? How come if I want to buy a BC, I can't rent one of the same make/model first for a day? What's THAT about? Oh, by the way, I snow ski too, and you CAN rent high-end skis and bindings for a day - or boots - and use them - before you plunk down $1,000 on a new pair from that nice ski shop. But I CAN'T do the same with scuba gear. WHY? Because you guys don't provide REAL CUSTOMER SERVICE, that's why, and until you do you have exactly ZERO complaint when your business all dries up as people buy from LP and their clones!
I used to deal with this all the time. I sold a particular line of equipment. We charged a lot for it - far more than the mail order places, and awfully close to retail. We sold a LOT of these boxes, even though you could buy one for FAR less through mail-order.
You know why I got the business? Because I always had an extra one laying around, and if yours broke then you got MINE until I could either fix it in my shop or send it out and get it back - repaired. That "hot swap" offer was good 24x7x365, and I could and DID come into the office at 3:00 AM to get you that spare if you needed it. Yeah, that cost me money - that was a box that I couldn't sell as new when the models changed, since it had been out, used, and battered around a bit. So what? That's the cost of customer service, and its why I am entitled to my margins!
You're not entitled to your margins just by being around. You have to EARN them. To the extent that you try to do that by restraining trade instead of providing quality service you're going to hear me - and others - squawk.
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After reading your post, I'm thankful you own your own shop in Destin. What's that you don't own your shop? My, my, it is so much easier to run a respectable shop by walking through the front door and making demands of the shop on how to do your nitrox fills, issue your certifications, etc.
Thank goodnees you're there and I'm here.
Thank goodnees you're there and I'm here.
What happens when Mike, who is now not covered by the manufacturer because he is buying from LP, services a reg and the customer dies while diving?
It doesn't matter that the cause was heart failure because he ate the wrong foods, smoked three packs a day and was 290 lbs. Mike is still going to court and will have legal expenses, and since he is not authorized he will probably loose, because juries don't understand it either. And because he wasn't authorized to do the service he may not have valid shop insurance either.
It doesn't matter that the cause was heart failure because he ate the wrong foods, smoked three packs a day and was 290 lbs. Mike is still going to court and will have legal expenses, and since he is not authorized he will probably loose, because juries don't understand it either. And because he wasn't authorized to do the service he may not have valid shop insurance either.
Scuba
Contributor
Interesting discussion.
So the manufacturer provides local dealers with merchandise, service supplies and info, along with price protection or fixing depending on view point.
Its safe to say now that the manufacturers have just pulled the rug from under the LDS feet with regards to price protection. They sell, I assume bulk, to internet dealers at a lower price, and then refuse to warrant their product when sold by these dealers. Manufacturers seem to be having their cake and eating it too.
If the manufacturer can no longer provide an edge to their "authorized dealers", I don't think repairs tools and manual will give sufficient profit as Mike said. Its time for the LDS to consider other options and demand better pricing from the manufacturer or many will have to close their doors.
Regarding parts and manual needed for service. One day someone is going to make these repair tools and sell them to everyone, along with manuals. The safety concerns they claim to address is nothing but a reason for being.
Here is the issue as I see it from a consumer point of view. I go to my local LDS who is not obligated to honor a warranty or service a product he is an "authorized dealer" for. There is nothing of value for me with this "authorize dealer" nonsense in this respect. Authorization won't fix my reg or service it, but it will sell me one at a higher price. When I go shopping for X, I don't care if the delear is "authorized" or not. I care about product quality,price and service. Something which is dependant in this industry on the specific shop (whether online of not) you do business with.
So the manufacturer provides local dealers with merchandise, service supplies and info, along with price protection or fixing depending on view point.
Its safe to say now that the manufacturers have just pulled the rug from under the LDS feet with regards to price protection. They sell, I assume bulk, to internet dealers at a lower price, and then refuse to warrant their product when sold by these dealers. Manufacturers seem to be having their cake and eating it too.
If the manufacturer can no longer provide an edge to their "authorized dealers", I don't think repairs tools and manual will give sufficient profit as Mike said. Its time for the LDS to consider other options and demand better pricing from the manufacturer or many will have to close their doors.
Regarding parts and manual needed for service. One day someone is going to make these repair tools and sell them to everyone, along with manuals. The safety concerns they claim to address is nothing but a reason for being.
Here is the issue as I see it from a consumer point of view. I go to my local LDS who is not obligated to honor a warranty or service a product he is an "authorized dealer" for. There is nothing of value for me with this "authorize dealer" nonsense in this respect. Authorization won't fix my reg or service it, but it will sell me one at a higher price. When I go shopping for X, I don't care if the delear is "authorized" or not. I care about product quality,price and service. Something which is dependant in this industry on the specific shop (whether online of not) you do business with.
Scuba
Contributor
I agree with your points about customer service, Genesis. I think a lot of it, or lack of it, has to do with the small nature of this market. Here In southern California there are shops that will let you buy gear, BC, reg, (masks, several times) take it on a real ocean dive and bring it back if you don't like it, for an exchange. You may also be surprised to know that California has the largest dive population in the country. And I suspect, unlike Florida and other tropical destinations, the vast majority of the dive business here is supported by locals.
Nothing like a little density to supply a little competition. The entrepenours will surface. Thats exactly what the internet is doing.
dkigreg, the argument about repair liability is nonsense when you look at how other industries handle it. Just look at the auto industry, where people loose their lives due to shoddy repairs. Can you imagine it if it where run like the scuba business. One thing is probably true, there would be a lot less cars and drivers and not enough innovation to make better safer cars, tools and techniques, along with better training.
Nothing like a little density to supply a little competition. The entrepenours will surface. Thats exactly what the internet is doing.
dkigreg, the argument about repair liability is nonsense when you look at how other industries handle it. Just look at the auto industry, where people loose their lives due to shoddy repairs. Can you imagine it if it where run like the scuba business. One thing is probably true, there would be a lot less cars and drivers and not enough innovation to make better safer cars, tools and techniques, along with better training.
You aren't in the business are you
Scuba
Contributor
Not in the scuba business.
But I used to be in the automotive mobile tool business. Another business that survives solely on service provided. This service is "bundled" in the price of the merchandise much like the scuba business. (as I have heard)
Can you tell me how the liabiltiy is different for a scuba shop that services a part negligently, or not, in which the diver than goes out and suffers injury, from a auto repair shop where the same takes place?
But I used to be in the automotive mobile tool business. Another business that survives solely on service provided. This service is "bundled" in the price of the merchandise much like the scuba business. (as I have heard)
Can you tell me how the liabiltiy is different for a scuba shop that services a part negligently, or not, in which the diver than goes out and suffers injury, from a auto repair shop where the same takes place?
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Not anytime soon, we've been in business for over 14 years. How long have you been diving? 14 days you say.:badmoon:
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