Looking for a good tech instructor

[JohnN]

My original question remains. To stay within the GUE standards, no diver should descend below 100 ft without helium

If you can provide a reference to "decades of incident reports", I'd be most appreciative. And since we're talking GUE standards (always 32% nitrox), the EAD is about 64 80 feet.

If you think your WOB is excessive at 100', perhaps you should upgrade your regulators.

Oh the humanity

Edited to correct my math. Too few cups of coffee this AM

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

My original question remains. To stay within the GUE standards, no diver should descend below 100 ft without helium

I used to be critical of GUE until I learned about gas density issues from Dr. Simon Mitchell and until I understood the system (it took fundies and then some time for that to sink in).

Remember, GUE has a system that is based on simplification. While I find some rantings of GI3 to be rather unpalatable, I did listen to a podcast (I can look it up if anyone really wants to know) where it was discussed that GUE developed a system from the point of where the kaka hit the fan and how would they get out of it. From that perspective, diving trimix at anything below 100' inside a cave where there is a silt out and you lose the line, etc., etc., is rational to me.

Now I've never experienced the extreme psychological stress of what I just described, but I can imagine that like it or not, my respiration rate is going to increase, and therefore my CO2 production and therefore greater narcosis and therefore greater risk to being able to handle emergencies.

And therefore it does make sense to me, even though I'm not a GUE diver, just a GUE fundies rec pass (expired) recipient.

If you can provide a reference to "decades of incident reports", I'd be most appreciative. And since we're talking GUE standards (always 32% nitrox), the EAD is about 64 feet.

If you think your WOB is excessive at 100', perhaps you should upgrade your regulators.

Oh the humanity

 

[Willdiveforhugs]

Just an update, Alex from GUE is taking a break from training, he referred me to Kees Leverenz and James Fraser, both are also regional GUE as I understand it.

Regarding Travelling to train: If local doesn’t work, that is exactly what I will do. We are not there yet.



Regarding the argument over agency and trimix let me feed you some troll bait:



While all of you are without doubt better and more experienced divers than myself, here is my personal choice on that:

- This is a hobby, If I cannot afford to do it right, I don’t need to do it.

A gas density above 6 g/L is not a thing I care to dive.

I am open to diving air below 100 feet if I am just floating in the breeze watching hammerheads.

If I have to swim or perform tasks, any kind of exercise increases my metabolism / co2 production. The work of breathing is a problem of blowing off Co2 not adequate oxygenation at depth.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Just an update, Alex from GUE is taking a break from training, he referred me to Kees Leverenz and James Fraser, both are also regional GUE as I understand it.

Regarding Travelling to train: If local doesn’t work, that is exactly what I will do. We are not there yet.



Regarding the argument over agency and trimix let me feed you some troll bait:



While all of you are without doubt better and more experienced divers than myself, here is my personal choice on that:

- This is a hobby, If I cannot afford to do it right, I don’t need to do it.

A gas density above 6 g/L is not a thing I care to dive.

I am open to diving air below 100 feet if I am just floating in the breeze watching hammerheads.

If I have to swim or perform tasks, any kind of exercise increases my metabolism / co2 production. The work of breathing is a problem of blowing off Co2 not adequate oxygenation at depth.

I did fundies with Alex, a workshop with Kees. Both are very good and have slightly different approaches. I know that James is very experienced, I just have no personal experience with him. But I would wager he too would do an excellent job.

 

[JohnN]

I did fundies with Alex, a workshop with Kees. Both are very good and have slightly different approaches. I know that James is very experienced, I just have no personal experience with him. But I would wager he too would do an excellent job.

If you're going the GUE route, I'd add a vote for Kees. I took fundies from him way too early in my diving "career' and he is very good. There is just too much kool-aid dispensed by GUE for me, although I've adopted the bungee'd second. (but then I solo dive too, so I'm going to burn in hell)

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

If you're going the GUE route, I'd add a vote for Kees. I took fundies from him way too early in my diving "career' and he is very good. There is just too much kool-aid dispensed by GUE for me, although I've adopted the bungee'd second. (but then I solo dive too, so I'm going to burn in hell)

As one of the GUE folks said to me: "you don't have to drink the Kool Aid, just come for the skills." And I pass that on. Even if you want to dive split fins and a jacket style BCD afterwards, have at it. But people's skills are going to improve regardless of what configuration they go back to afterwards.

 

[JohnN]

And to add a note, if it your intent to get a "provisional" Fundies pass (you need to dive doubles to get a full pass), be sure your buoyancy skills are very good. That was my mistake (and insufficient diving experience in a drysuit)

 

[Lorenzoid]

GUE does not allow sidemount and anything over 100 feet is supposed to be trimix.

My original question remains. To stay within the GUE standards, no diver should descend below 100 ft without helium

GUE training is good stuff. They do set forth some precise standards to aspire to, and in the training courses they adhere rigidly to the standards and explain the rationale behind the various standards, so the student can become an informed diver and gain experience safely. But how the individual diver and his buddy/team choose to dive after the course is over is up to them. If they feel they do not have the training and experience to weigh the risks and rewards involved in whatever deviation from standards they might be contemplating, they should default to standards. That's one reason the standards are in place. Also, if the diver gets involved in a group/club of other GUE divers, they will almost certainly default to standards on those dives.

 

[Boarderguy]

I am open to diving air below 100 feet if I am just floating in the breeze watching hammerheads.

If I have to swim or perform tasks, any kind of exercise increases my metabolism / co2 production. The work of breathing is a problem of blowing off Co2 not adequate oxygenation at depth.

Breathing air at 150 is no problem with a quality regulator.

 

[SpeedyJ]

My original question remains. To stay within the GUE standards, no diver should descend below 100 ft without helium

If you can provide a reference to "decades of incident reports", I'd be most appreciative. And since we're talking GUE standards (always 32% nitrox), the EAD is about 64 feet.

If you think your WOB is excessive at 100', perhaps you should upgrade your regulators.

Oh the humanity

GUE isn't the only organization to have gas density limits, with more organizations adding to their standards in recent years. As just the simple mention of GUE elicits pretty binary responses, look at the other organizations who are talking about gas density:

DAN has been posting research on gas density with growing frequency, it was a topic discussed by Cat Braun of SSI, Mark Powell of TDI, and Mark Caney of PADI on stage at Diving Talks Portugal in 2023. BSAC and RAID both have standards/recommendations that align with the GUE standard.

As divers we get to choose which standards we want to follow. If you want to dive air to 240' / 73M PSAI has a class and standards for you. But the consensus is trending the other direction with a grounding based on research done by well respected individuals.