Looking into buying gear. Bcd or bpw?

[USFpsychDiver]

I find a BP/W more comfortable in the water. A jacket BC feels constricting, kind of like wearing a life jacket; the BP/W feels almost like nothing's there. I have a couple, steel for local diving, kevlar for travel. With the steel plate and steel tank I don't need any additional weight at all in a 3 mil wetsuit. I put a couple of weight pockets on the cam bands in case I do need additional weight. For the kevlar plate I've got two pockets on the waist band and two on the shoulder straps. Lack of pockets don't bother me, just clip things to the D-rings (and don't take anything I don't need).

The one issue is that, being so adjustable, the BP/W will take some adjustment to get right. Unlike a jacket bc which has a couple of straps to pull, adjusting the BP/W involves moving tri-glides around on webbing, maybe changing the position of the buckle on the webbing, and perhaps even trimming the webbing. None of this is particularly complicated, but is more involved and takes some trial and error to get it just right.

As for try before you buy, well, easier said than done. I ended up buying used online, e-bay and here. My first BC was a Zeagle Express Tech off e-bay for $150 (alas, they only sell the 'deluxe' model now, and the first thing I'd do if I got a 'deluxe' would be to strip off all the deluxe features and make it a regular one). I'm actually in the process of putting together another travel plate for an upcoming trip based on the Apeks Ultralight plate; just bought some webbing, D-rings, tri-glides, a buckle, and some XS-scuba pockets. The plate and parts come to about $120 and I've got a DSS 27 lb wing that I got used for about $100, so you can get in for relatively cheap.

 

[RJP]

However, one area I'm struggling is around this whole debate surrounding bcd and bpw.

What debate?

The debate has been settled... though many people still dive/advocate for a traditional BCD. God only knows why.

:d

---------- Post added November 6th, 2014 at 10:42 AM ----------

Some divers find the hard back plate uncomfortable on their backs.

Never met one. Never heard of one. Never met anyone who has heard of one.

You should have enough lift to cover the most amount of lead you think you will use. For example if you dive say 26 lbs. weight in you wetsuit you need a BC with at least 26 lbs. but probably higher say 30 lbs. or even more.

Huh? So you're saying that you will need "up to 26lb, but probably more, say 30lbs, or even more"??
So, from a mathematical standpoint your rough estimate is effectively "somewhere between ZERO and INFINITY"

On the other hand, I dive with NO lead. So I don't need ANY lift?

Your rationale above would assume that the diver is weighted to be 26lb NEGATIVE. That should not be the case. Assuming a diver is properly weighted (weighted to be neutral at the end of the dive) the amount of lift they need is tied to their variable buoyancy... not to how much lead they are wearing. Here's what Halcyon has to say about the matter:

Divers’ variable buoyancy is determined by the weight of the gas in their tank plus the loss of buoyancy from their wetsuit (or neoprene drysuit) due to compression at depth. Divers wearing a tri-laminate (shell-type) or crushed neoprene drysuit do not experience such compression, making this calculation even easier. The average ¼-inch (approx. 5 mm) wetsuit looses about 9lb. (4 kg) of buoyancy at 100ft (30 m); 80CF of air from a typical Al-80 weighs 6lbs (2.7 kg), so with an Al-80 tank and a ¼-inch (5 mm) wetsuit, the variation in buoyancy from the start of the dive (at depth with a full tank) to the end of the dive (at 10ft/3m with 500psi/35 BAR) will be 15lb. (6.8 kg).Having weighted to be neutral at the end of the dive, the gas equivalent to 15 lb. (6.8 kg) of lift will need to be added to the BC at the start of the dive (at depth) to be neutral.

Given that most divers would prefer to be more than just neutral at the surface, it is recommended that all divers double their variable buoyancy requirement to determine their minimum lift BC wing. In this case, the required buoyancy would be 30lb. (13.6 kg) of lift.

There are a few other factors that can increase your lift requirements. One is a desire for your BC to float your gear without you in it. It is not necessarily a requirement, but it can be of benefit—particularly for divers who dive out of an inflatable or don their gear in the water. Determine this lift requirement by adding together the lift needed to float the specific tank used and how much weight is on the system.
​

 

[Scubatude]

Where is So. Cal. are you? My entire rental fleet is BP/W, in fact I don't even sell vest style BCDs currently. We have try days in the pool and you are welcome to try a BP/W.....or a DPV

 

[RJP]

We have try days in the pool and you are welcome to try a BP/W.....or a DPV

You must have a pretty big pool!

 

[Scubatude]

You must have a pretty big pool!

yep

 

[RJP]

Damn - you could do a navigation class in there!

 

[Imapseudonym]

personally depending on where in SoCal you are, I would highly recommend driving to Pasadena and going into Deep Sea Supply's store. Tobin will be able to get you into a very comfortable rig that is going to be epic for that cold water diving. His plates and wings are wonderful, but for cold water they're even better since you can bolt weight plates to them to remove most of the lead from your wetsuit. It's seriously worth braving LA to go up and talk to him in person.

Ha, I moved away from Pasadena two years ago. Maybe I'll make a trip to see my brother who lives near that area to go check out the store. I'm about 3.5 hours away from Pasadena now

---------- Post added November 6th, 2014 at 08:27 AM ----------

Where is So. Cal. are you? My entire rental fleet is BP/W, in fact I don't even sell vest style BCDs currently. We have try days in the pool and you are welcome to try a BP/W.....or a DPV

I see you're in Santa Clarita. I'm about 2.5 hours away from there.

---------- Post added November 6th, 2014 at 08:32 AM ----------

I don't think any local diving place has any BP/Ws around here so I will have to travel a bit to figure out if the setup feels better or not. I'll try to find some places where I can test an array of bcd's whatever style they may be.

The advice I get on here is always so thorough so thank you all for taking the time to provide me with your insight. I suppose the next question may be what are good places in the southern to central california area to try on BCDs.

 

[Crush]

Most here on Scubaboard will say back plate with wings. But that isn't the only choice. Some divers find the hard back plate uncomfortable on their backs. it does have the advantage of being customizable since you can mix and match components.

Never met one. Never heard of one. Never met anyone who has heard of one.

That makes two of us. Never heard of a BP&W diver complaining about the fit of their BP.

I love rear-inflate BCD's, whether BP&W or not BP&W (e.g., Zeagle Scout). Non-rear inflate BCDs are often referred to as "jacket" style BCDs. I have never dived a jacket style BCD that I have liked - I find them to be cumbersome and restrictive.

I firmly believe that, for diving, less is more. Lots of comfortable padding and flashy colours may look cool in the shop, but when you are horizontal in the water the padding is unnecessary. I'd recommend a simple, compact rear-inflate BCD. Personally I started with a rear-inflate non-BP&W (Zeagle) and after 50 dives switched to a BP&W. If I was to do it over I'd go straight to the BP&W. Either way you will enjoy the diving experience.

 

[tbone1004]

that's the nice thing about bp/w's, they're all pretty much the same as far as the way they fit, it is seriously worth a 4 hour drive to go to Tobin's shop in person though, especially if you can combine it with a trip to see your brother. His stuff is that good.

 

[Adobo]

Hey everyone,

I've been doing a lot of research recently as I prepare to invest in some gear. However, one area I'm struggling is around this whole debate surrounding bcd and bpw. From what I read it sounds like bpw give better trim? If you could choose what would you choose and why? I was looking into an aqualung i3 but after reading all this stuff I'm just super confused.

Also, how much lift would I need for diving in cold water ocean? I wear a 7mm with a hood/vest.

I wouldn't bother with "which solution gives better trim" aspect of it. The fact of the matter is, the really good divers could dive with a brick and a trash bag and get into good trim. I am sure that if you picked a regular BCD, you could figure out how to get yourself in proper trim using that BCD.

There are several aspects of backplate and wing systems that make them appealing. These include:
- They are almost infinitely adjustable. The harness can be one piece webbing that can be sized to fit a small woman to a very large man. (Or vice versa ). Recently, there have been some smaller backplates and larger backplates made commercially available to fit people who are in the more extreme sides of the size issue. But in general, a medium sized backplate can be sized properly for the overwhelming majority of divers.
- The backplate and the wing are separate components that come together as a BCD solution. If your wing pops, you can simply replace it with another wing. Or you can have multiple wings... one wing for cold water diving and another wing for warm water diving.
- BP and wing solutions can grow with you as your diving expands and becomes more sophisticated. Generally speaking, a BP and wing solution is just as good (if not better) than any BCD for recreational diving. If your diving progresses to diving with doubles or technical diving or even cave diving, you will likely have to use a BP and wing system anyway and most non-BP and wing systems are not suitable for those other types of diving. Might as well start with a BP system now.
- Resale value. I haven't done any studies but I am 99% sure that if you decide to sell one of the better known brands of BP and wing systems, you will get better resales than if you are trying to sell one of the better known brands of BCD systems.