Low down on new vs used bcd and regs.

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I am a new aow diver with 25+ dives. My 16 year old son and 14 year old daughter are also new aow divers... I want to get them equipment they can get used to. My closest dive shop is telling me that I need to purchase new dive gear because of the safety and expense. If I purchase new then I have the lifetime free parts on recommended service. It seems to me that it might make more sense to purchase relatively new at 1/2 price and have everything serviced at full price once. Hopefully the first service will be safe until the next growth spurt. Any advice on buying dive gear new or used would be appreciated.

Hi Yellowdog.

I was in your position when I returned to diving after a long absence in 2007. In my case I had 5 divers to outfit, since during one of my many moves in my youth I had lost all my original gear except my steel 72 tank from the 1970's.

I bought all new gear, for five divers. It seemed like a good decision at the time, but in hindsight I would do things quite a bit differently.

1. I would not have bought jacket BC's. Although jacket BC's are sized to cover a range of body sizes and types, this often results in a less than optimal fit... and with kids can mean that they outgrow their BC's after a couple years. The recommendation TSandM made in her post is spot on: Investigate back plate and wings with simple webbing harnesses.... the harness can be adjusted to perfectly fit a wide range of body types and sizes, and because they are truly modular individual bits and pieces can be replaced when needed. Most divers who try BP/W's are delighted, and leave their "poodle jackets" behind forever.

2. Generally the best bang for the buck as far as regulators go is found in the "mid-range" of any manufacturer's product line. This seems to hold true for most of the brands. For most regulator brands, the difference in performance between the middle and the top of their line is negligible, and usually does not justify the premium price of the "latest and greatest" reg of the brand. The skill of the tech that "tunes" your regs is more important to your diving experience than whether the reg is the bottom, middle or top of the line.

3. Used regulators can be an amazingly good deal, depending on the make, model and price. Many new divers will happily buy all the top end gear their dive shops tell them they need (the implication is that they need the high end stuff to be safe), then they lose interest in the sport. If properly cared for, a regulator will be serviceable for years and years (as long as parts remain available), and may only require an inspection and tuning prior to diving it... at worst, an annual service. You can often buy what was the top regulator in the product line a few years ago for 1/3 to 1/2 its original price. But you do need to do your homework so that you know a bit about the regulator you are considering, and also know where you will get it serviced, and how much the service will cost.

Ask lots of questions; but in the end, have fun with whatever you decided to do!

Best wishes.

 

[Lorenzoid]

My thinking, as far as buying a used BCD or reg set, is that there is a lot of lightly used gear out there--I myself have sold some that I treated with kid gloves and had a hard time letting go of--and amazingly good deals can be found. Dive gear is remarkably tough and should last for years and years and hundreds if not thousands of dives if well maintained. HOWEVER, I would not use a BCD or reg set that I bought used without first having it professionally serviced.

Except for people who have learn to service regulators themselves and have acquired the proper tools, etc., most of us have our regulators serviced by a dive shop at intervals somewhere in the range of 1-2 years. Each time my dive shop services my reg set, it's in the neighborhood of $100, and I believe that's fairly typical. So if you buy a used reg set, expect to take it to a shop and pay something like that. If you buy a new reg set from a dive shop, they generally will put the thing through its paces to test it for you. So, the potential savings obviously depends on what kind of deal you are offered on the used reg set.

I don't know what the typical cost is for having a used BCD checked out by a dive shop service technician, but I can't imagine it is as much as the cost of servicing a regulator. BCD service is not as common as regulator service (though I think it should be), so you might get a quizzical look from the dive shop guy when you bring it in. The cynic in me suspects they might even use the opportunity to try to sell you a new one. Don't tell them you bought it used.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Knowing what I know now, if I was to do it all over again I would buy the simplest reg set made.
When I first bought all my gear I got talked into buying the most expensive Scuba Pro first stage with the second most expensive second stage.
Looking back, for the diving I was doing I easily could have made a ScubaPro MK2/R195 work fine. At the time they were right around $200 for the set, and since I was buying new from an SP shop this would have made the most sense.
I also wouldn't have bought the BC I did, I should have settled for the simplest BC they had. At the time nobody was using BP/W and they weren't thought of as a recreational set up yet.
There's a lot I would have done different, but one thing I wouldn't have done different being that I didn't know anything was buy used stuff. Now of course that's all I would buy because I got into DIY.
If I would have known somebody that was into diving back then that could have mentored me and shown me the ropes of used gear and what to buy/look for/DIY repairs etc, then maybe it would have been different.
BC's also aren't as critical as regulators as far as buying used. They are fairly simple, and generic parts such as inflator assemblies can be purchased from Trident (odd and end supplier to dive shops). A quick visual inspection of things like buckles, straps, fraying, holes, chafe marks, cracks in any plastic components etc. will tell the story. Problem is that stuff is hard to detect when buying on Ebay. That's better when finding stuff at garage sales and flea markets.
I always thought somebody could do a hell of a business refurbishing and selling quality used scuba gear.

 

[Octopusprime]

A used BCD is ok if you want but if it is in good shape your not saving much. When it comes to regs it's not worth it. Like others have said after you get it serviced and parts your not saving much.

My LDS is dive right in and I just got a Hollis 1st and 2nd stage for $199 it was a blowout deal I would have bought more if I had the money. If you not set on a specific make and model wait for a deal. When new models come out old ones go Down in price if they have a bunch on the shelves they will give discounts.

i see a LOT of great deals at Black Friday or right after the dive shows.

 

[kwinter]

My closest dive shop is telling me that I need to purchase new dive gear because of the safety and expense. If I purchase new then I have the lifetime free parts on recommended service.

This part alone would make me run from that shop. Of course the shop has a financial interest in selling you new gear. But they should also recognize the financial interest they have in keeping customers happy. Most of their profit comes from teaching, not equipment sales. And they will actually make more money on service over the lifetime of a piece of equipment than they do on the initial sale. But the most troubling thing I see is when a shop is critical of you buying used gear, and then goes and advertises their own used rental gear for sale. Rental gear has far more mileage on it than most used gear being sold here or on eBay.

For regulators and free parts for life programs, this can make a lot of financial sense if you're the type that will 1) not be servicing your own equipment; and 2) follow the required service schedule even though there might be no need for service. Otherwise the FPPL disappears and any cost benefit is gone.

New BCDs for growing kids make no sense to me. A used backplate and wing setup can grow with them and save a ton.


iPhone. iTypo. iApologize.

 

[Yellowdog]

Another option I am contemplating is to buy the regulators new, but discounted online, and are therefore not eligible for "free parts for life". What is a reasonable maintenance schedule for service. Aqualung for instance recommends / requires inspection year one and overhaul year 2 and so on. At one full price store I talked to, the inspection charge is $25 per rig and the overhaul $75.00 with free parts. I am not sure how much extra parts would be. If I am careful with our gear, wash it well after each dive and store it correctly how often do I really need to take it in for inspection /overhaul @ 25 dives a year?.

 

[Aqua-Andy]

I always thought somebody could do a hell of a business refurbishing and selling quality used scuba gear.

It's already been done Scuba Crap. I don't think he is getting rich off of this but it could be a good service for new divers. He also has a great podcast that is worth listening to Diversync.

 

[dberry]

I've been researching and purchasing my first set of gear over the last few months, so I feel your pain / confusion. I posted a lot of questions on SB, tried to take the advice (often conflicting!), and have put together a basic kit. Here's a summary of my learning curve. YMMV.

Reg: I bought new, but got a deal on a well-established mid-level model that got a cosmetic change and new name for 2015. [AquaLung Titan LX Supreme for $285, instead of >$500. Now called the "Core"] That includes 1st and 2nd stages, but don't forget you'll need to add a secondary and SPG. The matching secondary for that reg is the ABS (ca. $140), but you might go used for that. A decent SPG combo with pressure and depth might be $80-120 (or much higher), or just a pressure gauge on a hose for much less. IMO, you could save some $$ with a used SPG without losing sleep.

BC: I took the advice of the BP/W proponents and am happy about the choice. It's a modular approach and each piece can be replaced / upgraded separately. If your kids are still growing, the ability to adjust the harness is a big win, and completely replacing all the webbing for a longer piece might cost $10-15? Stainless steel plates range in cost from $70 (LeisurePro, now on sale for $50) to >$200. Folks here say the high end plates offer some very nice touches, but the advantages are subtle. I went for cheap. Aluminum plates might be better for travel and/or warmer water diving.

Harness: The traditional approach is a single length of 2" webbing (ca. 10-12ft long) threaded through the plate with some D-rings and a belt-buckle. The hardware and webbing can be bought separately or you can get a basic kit with webbing and hardware (DiveRite, etc) for about $50. Webbing runs about $0.75 / foot from on-line scuba suppliers (NESS, etc.)

Out of the water with tanks the webbing can be a bit tough on the shoulders, and some like having more padded shoulder straps. "Adjustable" / deluxe harnesses add a little padding and plastic quick-disconnects to make it easier to adjust the shoulders and to don / doff the rig. Purists think these are unnecessary doo-dads that add failure points. Mid-price examples include the Diverite transplate harness. I bought one of these used (from a SB member). It's fine, but once I played it with a bit and understood how the webbing and rings are rigged, and wore it a few times, I also bought some webbing and tried a simple traditional setup. To be honest, the only thing I might add to the basic harness is some shoulder padding. Grain of salt warning: I've only been in the water with this new rig once so far; everything worked fine, but ask me again in 3 weeks after a trip to FLA.

Wing: Most expensive part of the bp/w setup. I bought a new Oxycheq wing, but used would probably be fine, as long as you can open the shell and look over the bladder for pinches, leaks, etc. Make sure you get one that is sized for a single tank, unless you are diving doubles. (lots of the used wings I saw were for doubles.)

Other: computer, compass, wetsuit, booties, hood, gloves.

Nickels and dimes: Actually, more like $10s and $20s... some are optional, others not.
gear pocket(s): $20 and up
integrated weight pockets (without weights): 2 x $10 (low end, velcro) up to >$100
knife
light(s)
SMB
finger reel
regulator case
mesh gear bag to haul everything
dry bag (for clothes, wallet, phone)

Yikes! No wonder my wife is grumbling about my new obsession. Oh well, whether we buy used or new, we're all doing our part to boost the economy!

 

[redacted]

Another option I am contemplating is to buy the regulators new, but discounted online, and are therefore not eligible for "free parts for life". What is a reasonable maintenance schedule for service. Aqualung for instance recommends / requires inspection year one and overhaul year 2 and so on. At one full price store I talked to, the inspection charge is $25 per rig and the overhaul $75.00 with free parts. I am not sure how much extra parts would be. If I am careful with our gear, wash it well after each dive and store it correctly how often do I really need to take it in for inspection /overhaul @ 25 dives a year?.

I believe I am running 3 to 5 years between a full service and some of my regs go more. I do not service my regs on a fixed schedule but when a problem a problem begins to show. That problem would be a noticeable lose of performance (not cured by a small adjustment), a small leak, or IP instability. Such problems tend to start small and grow fairly slowly. I always carry a spare set of regulators (for my group) in the event such a problem show up at the wrong time.

The key to such an approach is you must be able to inspect your own gear. It is not hard and does not require much technical competence. Here is how to get started: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/regulators/346813-regulator-inspection-checklist-rev-7-a.html

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Service is also dependent on how you take care of your gear. When rinsing regs I ALWAYS have them hooked to a tank (or pony tank) and soak them pressurized. I do not rely on the dust cap to be waterproof enough to use as a seal to keep water out of the first stage.
With my piston regs I also get the hose right up to the ambient pressure holes and cup the reg in my hand while pressing the hose up to the holes to force water through the chamber. This gets fresh water flowing through getting the salt and debris out.
With my diaphragm regs of course this is a non issue.
Some of my older Conshelf regs that were given to me I know have gone 10 to 20 years without services. When I tear them down I see almost no wear and everything looks good. I put them back together with the same parts figuring I'll put a kit in them someday if I decide to use them, and after I put them back together with the old parts they still work fine, hold IP, and flow air, go figure.
But the thing is all this could be different and the insides could be trashed every year just by not cleaning them right, or allowing salt water to enter the first stage by sloppy tank changes.
So in some ways I can see the every year FPFL program rules because they have no way of knowing how people take care of their gear or how they rinse them. Some people don't have a clue about the proper way to rinse a reg and for those people every year service by a shop makes perfect sense.