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LP 80's vs HP 100 "wet" weight
- Thread starter NoOctoForYou
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I get it, just as long as you are acknowledging that the rig you own is really not designed for steel tanks and that you have to completely change the way you dive when switching from steel to aluminum tanks. It's truly a completely different style of diving that you have to contend with. It's not like switching from aluminum to steel in backmount.
L13
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How does the style change?
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the tank attachment is completely different for the lower attachment points. It also throws your trim to be very different. Swapping between al80's and steel tanks is not just a hardware change in how the tanks are rigged but also a hardware change on how the rig is configured. Not worth it IMO unless you really need the gas quantity of steel tanks.
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NoOctoForYou
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I live in California so I have the cold, pacific waters to contend with. To be honest, as a recreational diver, I have no real need to dive multiple cylinders (except for redundancy perhaps). I want to go full cave and my SM instructor recommend that I learn sidemount instead of twins. So I am doing it for practice in preparation for it. Thats why she suggested the Razor and, in fact, we did my training in a wetsuit with AL80's knowing that's what ill use in Mexico.
L13
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I guess I'm trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong. I'm using the same xdeep rig for drysuit+HP100s and 3mm+AL80s and it seems pretty straight forward to switch. Mostly just moving weights from low to high on the back, and attaching the lower end of the tank to a fixed D-ring instead of the sliding one. I know you have way more experience than me, so I'm trying to figure out what i'm not doing that I should be.
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Attaching to the fixed d-ring instead of sliding is a different method of attaching the bottom, though with most HP100's they hang really heavy and putting them directly on a waist d-ring causes them to hang too low on the diver when they are full. Usually you have to go to the drop d-rings or a butt plate with the attachment closer to the spine and for that the tanks are rigged differently.
That should be enough justification to do your diving at home in AL80's instead of steel. If you listen to one of the Steve Davis Speaking Sidemount podcasts he talks about how difficult the transition was between the two types of tanks for sidemount. It's really recommended to pick one and really master it before trying to deal with the other. Guys in Mexico have to deal with Florida guys coming down and diving AL80's for the first time and it's rarely pretty and we deal with guys from Mexico trying to dive steel for the first time and again it's rarely pretty. If you don't need the added gas volume of the steel tanks then stay with AL80's. The only reason we use steel tanks in Florida is because of the gas volume, nothing to do with the buoyancy.
Been diving sidemount for 13 years, been teaching it for over 10, and I did development work on the Razor 2.5 wing and have the prototypes in the garage. It is a REALLY BAD choice for steel tanks, I would strongly urge you to not fight it by trying to force a square peg into a round hole. I know it means you have to put 10lbs of lead on the spine, but you will have so much more enjoyable of an experience and more importantly the practice you have will actually be relevant when you go back to Mexico instead of learning bad habits by trying to take a rig that wasn't designed to dive steel tanks and seriously struggles doing it and then going back to what it was designed to do.
This ^^^
The Razor is horrible with steel tanks (especially full hp100s, less than 2/3rds full lp80s [<2400psi] in the ocean can be ok-ish)
Seriously, use al80s and ignore the videos of Boegarts diving a razor in a wetsuit with 1/2 full Faber 85s. You're fighting gravity, buoyancy, and every natural instinct of the Razor.
L13
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Because unless your arse is a mile wide and you use impossible large neck bungies, the tanks hang like bricks far too low. The razor and related harnesses rely on the neck bungie to "roll" a relatively light cylinder from below your torso until it is in-line with your body and not hanging below it. It can be done with small and relatively light steel cylinders like lp45s or lp50s. The weight of the gas and talk buoyancy in a 1/2 full faber lp85 in salt water is close enough so that the neck bungie can roll that cylinder up from below your body until its along your side.
HP100s and PST/Worthington lp80s of any type are far too heavy and will hang below you no matter how strong the neck bungie. Even 3/8" bungie is not going to be strong enough to rotate the tank into position. Plus on the backside no matter how short and close you make the tail clips the butts will be below your pelvis when full.
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