Macro with the A7R II & Sony FE 90mm macro
- Thread starter PHIL RUDIN
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hibneth
New
Phil, have you determined what other lens you will use underwater with the Sony A7rii? Also will you share how you configure the camera settings? Manual mode? Focus peaking? Other settings for best underwater results? The complexity of this camera is high for me and I would greatly appreciate your help. I have enjoyed reading your posts in the past and your articles and reviews and I am looking forward to your review of this camera. Thank you,Tom Hibner
OP
PHIL RUDIN
Contributor
Hi Tom, I am on the road so this will be short. I am now using the FE 90mm macro and the FE 16-35 zoom for W/A with the Nauticam 180mm optical glass dome port. I will be making other lenses choices but will be moving slowly because Sony has new lenses being announced soon and I will be waiting to see what new offerings they will have in FE lenses. I have used the 90 macro in AF and with focusing peaking and both seem to work well after warming up to the system. I have been using the back focus feature and the same manual approach I always take when starting out with a new camera. Manual mode with ISO 100-200 for macro with 1/250th and F/8 to F/16 most of the time. I am still working out everything else in terms of how much battery drain I may encounter. I turn off IS for macro because I use a fairly high shutter speed. Battery drain is the biggest issue for me with mirrorless cameras in general V. DSRL's which are the clear winners in the battery department. A review will be coming at some point but this is an exceptional camera and I want to fully explore before trying to rush out a review.
hibneth
New
Phil, thank you for the reply. I am not familiar with the "back focus" feature or turning off IS for macro. Would you mind elaborating for this amature? Thanks again. I have the camera and 90 mm macro but haven't yet got the housing nor the rest of the gear but I love the camera so far. Thanks again,Tom
OP
PHIL RUDIN
Contributor
Hi Tom, I have auto focus set to the AEL/AF MF control button on the rear of the camera. This allows me to focus with my thumb on the rear control or with my forefinger using the front control on the Nauticam housing. Up side is that if you lock focus and remove your thumb the camera will not re-focus when you push the front shutter. this allows you to move the focus point without refocusing by rocking the housing a bit.IS is the five axis image stabilization which I don't need much for macro as most of the exposure is done in about a 1/1000th second when the strobe fires.
Marshmellow
Contributor
Hi Phil,
Did you try any close-up diopters when using the S90? I bought a S90 for my NEX7 rig for it's longer reach and hopefully faster auto-focus than what my Canon 60 set-up provides, only to discover the S90 would nit focus lock with a close-up diopter on (both a FIT +5 and a Aquatica +10). By themselves, the NEX7 and S90 focused quickly and accurately, but with the close-up lens on, the auto-focus barely functioned at all to the point of being unusable. The Canon 60 with a Metabones adapter actually focused accurately and faster! if you can believe that. LOL. The S90 just kept passing the focal point and hunting back and forth no matter what setting I put the lens or the camera on.
Needless to say, I was disappointed. Reef said my Aquatica +10 and FIT +5 weren't up to snuff and an SMC-1 would work better. I just received an SMC-1, but have not run any tests yet nor can I test it underwater without a port. Personally, I'm getting the feeling the S90's optics doesn't play well with closeup lens or the contrast focus method of the NEX7 doesn't work well with the lens + diopter, even though without the CU diopter it's fast and rock solid?
I'm sticking with my Canon 60/NEX set-up for the time being and using the S90 on the surface or will put it up for sale shortly. I'm not all that hopeful it will work better with the SMC-1 (on the surface at least), since the SMC-1 is designed to be used underwater.
Until the Nauticam Sony APS-C housings see a manual focus port for the S90, I would be careful buying such a set-up for NEX. Maybe I just got a bad lens? I'm curious if anyone else has had success or problems with auto-focus using a close-up lens with the Sony 90 macro?
Marshall
Did you try any close-up diopters when using the S90? I bought a S90 for my NEX7 rig for it's longer reach and hopefully faster auto-focus than what my Canon 60 set-up provides, only to discover the S90 would nit focus lock with a close-up diopter on (both a FIT +5 and a Aquatica +10). By themselves, the NEX7 and S90 focused quickly and accurately, but with the close-up lens on, the auto-focus barely functioned at all to the point of being unusable. The Canon 60 with a Metabones adapter actually focused accurately and faster! if you can believe that. LOL. The S90 just kept passing the focal point and hunting back and forth no matter what setting I put the lens or the camera on.
Needless to say, I was disappointed. Reef said my Aquatica +10 and FIT +5 weren't up to snuff and an SMC-1 would work better. I just received an SMC-1, but have not run any tests yet nor can I test it underwater without a port. Personally, I'm getting the feeling the S90's optics doesn't play well with closeup lens or the contrast focus method of the NEX7 doesn't work well with the lens + diopter, even though without the CU diopter it's fast and rock solid?
I'm sticking with my Canon 60/NEX set-up for the time being and using the S90 on the surface or will put it up for sale shortly. I'm not all that hopeful it will work better with the SMC-1 (on the surface at least), since the SMC-1 is designed to be used underwater.
Until the Nauticam Sony APS-C housings see a manual focus port for the S90, I would be careful buying such a set-up for NEX. Maybe I just got a bad lens? I'm curious if anyone else has had success or problems with auto-focus using a close-up lens with the Sony 90 macro?
Marshall
OP
PHIL RUDIN
Contributor
Marshmellow, these are Sergeant Major fish eggs shot at life size using the Sony A7R II, Sony FE 90mm macro at 1:1, in a Nauticam NA-A7II housing with two Inon strobes. A SubSee +10 C/U lens was added to the outside of the port bringing the magnification to about 2:1 or twice life-size. I then cropped the image to about 6 X 8 eggs. You can count the eggs in the original photo to get an idea of the crop. Original photo shot at ISO-200, 1/250th at F/22 and processed in Photoshop. Falloff of sharpness in the corners of the image is a result of the C/U lens not the 90mm macro. I don't have any experience shooting this lens with any of the APS-C sensor Sony cameras. I shoot the 90mm macro with the lens limited to the close focus range. I think the Nauticam SMC-1 is the better choice for this lens but I don't own one at this time and have not had the oppertunity to test that C/U lens. Images were shot using auto focus on the AF/MF-AEL button on the rear of the camera.
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Marshmellow
Contributor
Phil,
Thanks for the fast reply and photos. Nice eggs!
I'll give the SMC-1 a try using surface shots because that's all I can do. I'm waiting for other APS-C guys to weigh in on auto-focus performance with CU lens before I sell my Canon set-up or hope that Nauticam eventually comes out with a manual focus option for APS-C, but certainly not holding my breath.
By the way, I thought I read that the A7 series uses contrast focusing. Is this correct or does your A7rII use hybrid focusing using both contrast and phase detection? Since the only time the S90 hunts is when I'm using my CU lens, perhaps the optics of the CU lens simply is not working with the S90 keeping it from ever getting a sharp contrast point to lock focus. I may try moving the CU lens to different distances to see if there's a change, along with trying the SMC-1.
i use the AF/MF-AEL button in the same manner as you combined with the Peaking mode. I like manual focusing, but when I'm in current and stabilizing myself with my reef rod, I've only got one hand to make the shot. While the Metabones AF is quite slow, it reliably focuses the C60m to get me to the point of lock and rock. The NA-NEX7 housing is great for one hand control which is why I was hoping for good auto-focus from the S90.
Leaving for the Philippines in 6 weeks with my Filipina wife for a few months and so looking forward to getting back in the water to try out my new lens set-up with the modified Z12 in my 4.33 dome for CFWA macro.
Cheers,
M
Thanks for the fast reply and photos. Nice eggs!
I'll give the SMC-1 a try using surface shots because that's all I can do. I'm waiting for other APS-C guys to weigh in on auto-focus performance with CU lens before I sell my Canon set-up or hope that Nauticam eventually comes out with a manual focus option for APS-C, but certainly not holding my breath.
By the way, I thought I read that the A7 series uses contrast focusing. Is this correct or does your A7rII use hybrid focusing using both contrast and phase detection? Since the only time the S90 hunts is when I'm using my CU lens, perhaps the optics of the CU lens simply is not working with the S90 keeping it from ever getting a sharp contrast point to lock focus. I may try moving the CU lens to different distances to see if there's a change, along with trying the SMC-1.
i use the AF/MF-AEL button in the same manner as you combined with the Peaking mode. I like manual focusing, but when I'm in current and stabilizing myself with my reef rod, I've only got one hand to make the shot. While the Metabones AF is quite slow, it reliably focuses the C60m to get me to the point of lock and rock. The NA-NEX7 housing is great for one hand control which is why I was hoping for good auto-focus from the S90.
Leaving for the Philippines in 6 weeks with my Filipina wife for a few months and so looking forward to getting back in the water to try out my new lens set-up with the modified Z12 in my 4.33 dome for CFWA macro.
Cheers,
M
Marshmellow
Contributor
Alien,
I tried the SMC-1 on the surface (which is all I can do). It displayed the same focus problems my other close-up diopters had: the lens basically hunts past the focal point, than reverses to go back, only to pass it again. It continues to cycle in this manner. Occasionally if the area had really strong contrast points it would lock, but this only happened about 5-10% of the time on areas that focused quickly when there was no diopter on the lens.
The Metabones adapter, on the other hand, would go slightly past the focal point, than reverse directions and VERY SLOWLY approach the contrast point and lock focus. It never went past it more than once in it's calculations. It was very accurate and always locked on first attempt.
I'm not sure why the S90 doesn't work as good as the Metabones in this respect, as it's quick and rock solid by itself with the NEX7. I suspect the lens focus system does not work well with diopters (no logical explanation) and may need a firmware upgrade? Yet, Phil has responded with some success using his Subsee+10 on FF. All I can say is the lens did not reliably work with the Aquatica +10, FIT +5 and SMC-1 on APS-C. Unless I just happen to have a bad copy of the lens or the SMC-1 has to be under water, I would be hesitant to invest in the S90 and new port w/o manual focus until others can show success on the Sony APS-C platform. It's too bad, because the S90 is a 135mm macro on APS-C which is very nice, comparable to the Nikon 105 on DX. It provides considerably more working distance especially with +10 and 15 close-up lens which eat up the distance fast, like the CMC operating in the 12mm range from the port, which needless to say is hardly any room at all for lighting.
I'm keeping my Canon 60 set-up and not looking back until I see more success stories or a firmware upgrade from Sony. My lens is insured, so I will probably send it in for a tune-up and check-out before abandoning the S90 for my NEX7 rig. Plus, Reef Photo told me the Canon 60 lens was what Nauticam based the glass algorithm for the SMC-1 design on, so they work well together, even when using a Metabones adapter. My MB adapter has Firmware 31 by the way which works good.
Marsh
I tried the SMC-1 on the surface (which is all I can do). It displayed the same focus problems my other close-up diopters had: the lens basically hunts past the focal point, than reverses to go back, only to pass it again. It continues to cycle in this manner. Occasionally if the area had really strong contrast points it would lock, but this only happened about 5-10% of the time on areas that focused quickly when there was no diopter on the lens.
The Metabones adapter, on the other hand, would go slightly past the focal point, than reverse directions and VERY SLOWLY approach the contrast point and lock focus. It never went past it more than once in it's calculations. It was very accurate and always locked on first attempt.
I'm not sure why the S90 doesn't work as good as the Metabones in this respect, as it's quick and rock solid by itself with the NEX7. I suspect the lens focus system does not work well with diopters (no logical explanation) and may need a firmware upgrade? Yet, Phil has responded with some success using his Subsee+10 on FF. All I can say is the lens did not reliably work with the Aquatica +10, FIT +5 and SMC-1 on APS-C. Unless I just happen to have a bad copy of the lens or the SMC-1 has to be under water, I would be hesitant to invest in the S90 and new port w/o manual focus until others can show success on the Sony APS-C platform. It's too bad, because the S90 is a 135mm macro on APS-C which is very nice, comparable to the Nikon 105 on DX. It provides considerably more working distance especially with +10 and 15 close-up lens which eat up the distance fast, like the CMC operating in the 12mm range from the port, which needless to say is hardly any room at all for lighting.
I'm keeping my Canon 60 set-up and not looking back until I see more success stories or a firmware upgrade from Sony. My lens is insured, so I will probably send it in for a tune-up and check-out before abandoning the S90 for my NEX7 rig. Plus, Reef Photo told me the Canon 60 lens was what Nauticam based the glass algorithm for the SMC-1 design on, so they work well together, even when using a Metabones adapter. My MB adapter has Firmware 31 by the way which works good.
Marsh
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