Making The Scuba Industry Better

[friscuba]

1) It's tough enough on many student's ears just doing two dives in a day. 2) Sometimes, people just need a breather. So you have a "bad day", at least under the current system you've got a pre-scheduled chance for redemption.

In theory, you could easily cram all the skills into two dives in a day with students who've been trained well in the pool, but that'd really reduce the opportunity for actual diving, which I personally think carries a bit more weight towards the future success of the diver. In theory you could do the 3 or 4 dives in one day and spread out the skills, but frankly, lots of students are a tad bit frazzled after just two meeting the current requirements.

I've got a business and we train divers, while I'd probably enjoy getting it done in one day rather than two, and maybe be financially ahead of the deal by doing so.... the pain or difficulty of rescheduling a second day, and dealing with people's feelings of "failure" having not finished it all in one day, by FAR supercedes any benefit of saving a day. I like having that second day, just in case we need to work on something a little more that wasn't really where it needs to be on the first day.

 

[davetowz]

I think they should be reduced to one unassisted, unguided 45 minute dive that includes only the instructor trailing behind to observe (not demonstrate) the skills.

Give the students a plastic card with the required skill list, a planned navigation route and watch them.

If they get lost, can't complete the skills properly, or have a deer-in-the-headlights look, it's time for more class and pool time.

flots.

and if they drown..they fail..
Probably not a good thing.

 

[flots am]

and if they drown..they fail..
Probably not a good thing.

Then that would be an incentive for instructors to do their job and not turn them loose too early. And probably the end of the quick certification. You'll have to pardon me if I don't see the "down side" to this.

If the instructor has done a good job with a student, and spent enough time training, there should be no question about their capabilities in Open Water.

flots.

 

[davetowz]

I see alot of questions with no real answers, maybe that is what the industry giants should focus on. Maybe DEMA should think about how the online vs LDS relationship could work together with the big manufacturers instead of hosting "watersports shows". I have yet to see a student get an OW C card online, and the day someone figures out the air fill via usb over smartphone... That guy would give Bill Gates a run. The answer may lie within the manufacturers. The big names only really want to help the high volume shops, don't get me wrong...they will still sell to the small guy but help them really market the product or service..(see wikipedia for snowball's chance in hell). The training paradigm sucks, we mostly agree... except now the consumer ( in our minute market environment) is now conditioned to fast. I don't want to produce a new diver just to sell them gear, I would prefer a new diver that is introduced to an environment that they cannot get enough of! And they feel semi comfy in that environment, takes a few dives to really feel safe and comfy. The answer lies within the thoughts of all of us who are obsessed with this sport, we just have to get over ego and pride to realize the best way forward is cooperation.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Then that would be an incentive for instructors to do their job and not turn them loose too early. And probably the end of the quick certification. You'll have to pardon me if I don't see the "down side" to this.

If the instructor has done a good job with a student, and spent enough time training, there should be no question about their capabilities in Open Water.

flots.

In my case this would be true if the pool we trained in had 50 degree water and 6 foot visibility.

When you train people in a pool it does not completely prepare them for cold-water diving. You can't put them in a 7-mm farmer john wetsuit in a heated pool ... they'd suffer heat stroke. And therefore the student's first exposure to heavy neoprene and the weighting that goes with all that neoprene is going to be on their first checkout dive.

Mask clearing is another challenge ... there's a massive difference between clearing (or removal/replacement of) a mask in a pool vs doing it in cold water ... where mammalian reflex is much stronger for a significant percentage of humans. Pool work gives you the mechanics ... but it won't do much to "rewire" the instinctive response to a face full of cold water. You just have to get in the cold water and practice for a while.

If they're properly prepared ... if the instructor has done a good job in the pool with a student ... most students will adapt within a dive or two. But there's just no substitute for practical application ... and for instructors who train in cold water, there is a pretty radical environmental difference between what students experience in a pool and what they experience on the checkout dives.

Depending on the student, that first checkout dive can amount to little more than just developing a basic comfort level with the environment ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[endurodog]

Now this is some good info from the guys that have trained lots. Good stuff to think about guys!!!

 

[vladimir]

My four check-out dives were spread over two Saturdays. The nice thing about that, from an industry perspective, is that it started me in a routine of coming down to the dock to catch the boat, acquainted me with the captain and crew, and generally increased my comfort level with local diving--which can seem a little bit mysterious or "clubby" to the uninitiated, at least compared to resort diving. If you're training divers exclusively for their Caribbean vacations, none of that matters, but most would agree that local diving is good for the industry.

 

[friscuba]

I think they should be reduced to one unassisted, unguided 45 minute dive that includes only the instructor trailing behind to observe (not demonstrate) the skills.

Give the students a plastic card with the required skill list, a planned navigation route and watch them.

If they get lost, can't complete the skills properly, or have a deer-in-the-headlights look, it's time for more class and pool time.

flots.

Pool time is no substitute for the open water experience, even in good conditions. You can't just throw a student out there on their own (under observation from behind) and expect the same results in the pool. Those initial dives with an instructor in open water are an integral part of the training to get them diving in open water on their own.

 

[TSandM]

We talk about this quite often in my household, but not regarding OW training so much as some of the more advanced classes. The simple fact is that tired people aren't learning. In cold water, where we teach, the struggles required to get into very thick neoprene, and the walks into and out of the water with tanks and a lot of lead, exhaust people very quickly. I can see the puzzled and disappointed looks on their faces, as they wonder where the fun they had in the pool has gone . . . I suspect, with the weight and the cold, that if we tried to do all four dives in one day, NO ONE would ever dive again

We actually do a day of OW dives, and then two more pool sessions, and then the second day of OW dives. During the two pool sessions, the students have a chance to think about how things went in the open water, and work on things they felt were weak. They generally do MUCH better on the second day.

In addition, there is another phenomenon, which is what the subconscious is doing with the information in the interim. When I used to take riding lessons once a week, I was surprised that there would actually be improvement from lesson to lesson, despite not having any opportunity to practice in the meantime. My brain was clearly integrating some information during the intervening week. I am absolutely sure the same thing occurs for diving students.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Lynn, you are absolutley correct. Which is the primary reason that when SEI was formed we never considered lessening the required hours of instruction or the recommended way of delivering them. Conducting classes over a period of weeks allowed the students time to assimilate (you as the Borg Queen should love that line ) the information and effectively process it. And even though I teach in a heated pool there is still a limit to what students can take in skills and knowledge wise and more importantly retain it. I have found that after about 2 hours actually in the water students, for the first couple sessions anyway, start to get cold or tired or both. When that happens the learning process comes to a screeching halt.

I am a big fan of visualizing skills and tasks before and after learning them. I have had students tell me that between sessions they do pool dives sitting at their desk or in front of the TV. And when they get in the water it shows. They are more fluid and accomplished at them than those I saw when assisiting with classes that were conducted in longer but fewer sessions.

And in the classroom it also shows. I have 7 lectures that I do and then assign homework to reinforce those and prep them for the next one. Self study is secondary to face to face instruction. During the homework I encourage them to go outside the text and use the internet, read other sources, and try to get them to sign up here.

Limiting their initial education to the agency materials seems to be shortsighted and kind of narrow minded. I want to instill a sense of curiosity as well as wonder in this activity. To find what works best for them and interests them. Not just what I think they need to know or want. This is one of the reasons I love our text. Dennis Graver's "Scuba Diving". It is not agency specific, has no ads, and can be used for all of our classes that we currently offer. Supplemented by the instructors knowldege and experience it also saves them money. One text for OW, AOW, UW Nav (even though I also have them use the text I wrote for this and is included in the course cost), Drysuit, Search and Recovery, UW Naturalist, etc. The instructor supplements this with their own workbooks and handouts but they don;t need to spend a fortune on agency materials.

They can instead go buy the NOAA manual, download the Navy Manual, buy my book, or any of the other texts I recommend to them. Shortening training would deprive me of the opportunities I have to convince them that the best diving is local diving. It's cheap, it's fun, it improves their skills, and it keeps them in the water. Rushing through any part of the course is something I'd feel was morally and ethically, just plain wrong.