Mares regs?

[VTWarrenG]

xerxes,

Chill, dude. You're welcome to disagree with someone, but it really seems pointless to call them names. It doesn't make you (or DIR) look very good.

- Warren

 

[deepocean]

Hi

i am relaxed though.


Xerxes

 

[Grajan]

xerxes,

Well... did not want to upset anyone but your response does kind of go with my thesis that DIR is getting Quasi religious.......

Anyway some specific responses:

{You insult people while you dont even know what you are talking abouth. Well if DIR is so bad ? Why are you listening to them anyway?}

Who did I insult??? Did I say DIR is bad at all? (much less 'so bad'). I just said that it was not all for ME.

{"Seriously though - I've read Jarrod's book. It contains some very good advice but reads more like some fundementalist religious tract than an 'educational' document."

Nonsens, give some REAL proof.}

'reads more like' is clearly an OPINION not a statement of fact - proof of an opinion?.....

{You are pretending that you understand DIR.}

Where did I make that claim? but - to DIR's credit - it is not particularly complex.

"In the big picture DIR will come and go in the same way as other 'total solutions'. It will definitely add much value to the sport (certainly more than HUB........) but it is taking itself way too seriously for me at the moment. I am always cautious of solutions that claim to be the ONLY way. The world tends to be more complex than that. "

{Again nonsens and you dont know what you are talking about.
The person who compares HUB with DIR does nt only understand anything abouth DIR but also knows nothing abouth diving at all. Even the dumbest imbecile person understands the difference between these two.}

You really cannot read can you? or understand irony. Try again - what I said was DIR adds "much value" to the sport whilst HUB IMHO does not. I did NOT even come close to saying they were the same. My guess is we agree on this.

I am sure you are uninterested but here is a summary of my OPINIONS:

- DIR is a very good system indeed, with many first class ideas.

- It may be becoming unnecessarily prescriptive for OW diving where there are other viable options to some elements of the DIR equipment philosophy.

- DIR advocates 'appear' to be occasionally doctrinaire and intolerant of other ideas.

- Glad you are not my dive buddy:mean:.

Please do me a favor and read this carefully before breaking your keyboard. You might find we agree more than we disagree....

Graham
(a happy 'dumb imbecile') :tease:

 

[divernva]

xerxes... relax. No one is arguing with you. Just giving a vendor a fair shake with my experiences to support... in case someone searches later. And why do you think you have to convert me?

Just because someone is interested in DIR doesn't mean they necessarily want to pursue technical diving. I would like to be competent enough down the road to pursue technical diving if I choose. With the recent horror stories, we'll see if I'm diving past my bout with DIR-F.

Sheep... which I took to mean follow. Not blindly, but people more experienced. I'll never get the water time these folks are privileged to and therefore will take their wisdom as part of my research. During my research, I didn't find Apeks to be less expensive than any of the other regs. Then again, I wasn't considering a TX50/40/DS4. My LDS was asking $600 for a TX100 + $100 for a TX40. Pretty hefty and more than twice what I paid to start pursuing a hobby.

I never said a typical diver can't become technical. I was merely stating that a rec diver who certified to take advantage of warm-water vacations (i.e. my girlfriend) will most likely not venture past 100' fsw into a pitch black wreck. Nor would I let her.

A typical rec diver isn't DIR. Read the post, I specifically avoided associating DIR with recreational diving.

JJ's book is an excellent resource. And I have read it (in fact I picked it up a week after it was available). Not out of requirement, but for knowledge. If you don't find it a litttle restrictive then read it again. If you think the few sentences describing each configuration explains WHY you should be configured this way... you need to ask more questions.

"EVERYTHING that you hear outside the quest is not officially DIR and therefor not 100% reliable" GI said they were trash, he's got a ton of them, and hates them because he's always working on one. He finds them suitable only for stage bottles.


This isn't techdiver or quest... take a chill pill. If you'd like to discuss this further I'm open to private messaging.

Ken

 

[VTWarrenG]

Grajan,

I'd still like to hear why you call JJ's book a "religious tract."

- Warren

 

[Grajan]

Warren,
A fair question. with hindsight my comment was probably a little extreme but I did not actually call it a 'religious tract' but said - to me - it 'reads like one'.

It was not anything specific - In fact the book is packed with very useful stuff - but the general tone was that there is an absolute right and an absolute wrong and if it is not the very narrowly proscribed methodology/equipment of DIR it is wrong. This resolution of the world into black or white - with no shades of gray - is characteristic of fundamentalism.

As I said - it was more the overall tone but here are a couple of examples:

P53 second para from bottom seems to suggest that the final and total solution has been graciously provided and you mess with it at your peril. There is no recognition that learning will continue, evolution will not stop and this is just another, all be it possibly large, step on the path - another characteristic of fundamentalism.

P54 "DIR divers use a......" Doesn't leave much room for options does it? I would contend that the SQ Balance resonably meets the philosophical and practical goals of DIR but is not a rigid back plate. If I follow the implied logic of this book (do not mix systems, do not compromise, DIR is the only safe way) than I am apparently putting myself at some risk. I simply do not buy that so I guess I do not buy DIR - not actually the case.

What I really like about DIR is it is actively addressing many important issues that have simply been ignored by commercially driven diver training systems. I also think that much of the basic philosophy is first class.

What I am a little uncomfortable with is the narrowness of the solutions, the total dismissal of all other options and the zealotry it seems to develop. DIR Nazi's are not going to further the cause. There seems to be a bit of a 'cool to be DIR' thing going on that is liable to bring a 'rich assortment' to the flag......

I noticed you were involved in another thread along these lines that addresses some of the same concerns (no idea how to link to another thread yet). There were some very good observations there.

To further the cause of safer diving I think that it is very important that the diving community remains inclusive and supportive. A self appointed 'elite' heaping scorn on 'the unwashed masses' is not the way forward but, judging by the way I was treated, DIR appears to be starting to play that way.

Hope that explains my comment somewhat - happy to continue a (civil) debate.

Graham

 

[BFaure]

Wow alot of talk here about these regs. I have 3 Zeagle flatheads, two Apeks and 4 Mares. Each one have been good, but I do have some info.

1. The Apeks (ATX100) breath better than the Zeagles
2. The Zeagle I think have a nicer 2nd stage, the adjustment knobs stay cleaner longer.
3. The Mares regs are okay for deco. But not having any adjustments on the 2nd stage sucks if you start to have a bit of a free flow. Sure having adjustment knobs add parts but I think they are needed.
4. Yeah, the Apeks have odds ports but there are ways around that.
5. My primary reg is the Apeks 1st stage with Zeagle 2nd stages.

 

[Grajan]

Brian,

Thanks for getting us back on topic......

I am going to go for the ATX 200 and the ATX 40 occy.

Graham

 

[cmay]

Opinions are like @ss holes, and everybody has one. This is very clear on this board! This just happens to be mine. I have been diving a Mares Voltrex for over six years now and like it just fine. In fact, I have dove many ( Scuba Pro, Sherwood, USD, Beuchat, Sea Quest, Etc.) and I feel that the Mares out breathes them all. I can not speak about the Apeks because I have never come in contact with them, but I feel strongly about the quality and reliability of the Mares. In fact I have two Mares MR-12 III's in my teaching gear that are almost 15 years old. Those things are like Timexs, they take a "licking and keep on ticking". In fact, I would stack the Mares up against anyone in regards to reliability.

Just some comments as to some of the other posts on this topic.

Flimsy mouthpieces? Give me a break, I have not seen a regulator come from the factory with a decent mouthpiece. I make it a habit to replace mine with a ritebite or better mouthpiece. Stiff hoses? I don't feel much difference than with the competetors. HP seat design?? I'm sorry but I have to call bull**** on this one. The HP seat design on my Mares is exactly the same as on my Sea Quest regs (and Sea Quest regs are made by InterSpiro who also designs and produces AquaLung regs, in fact AquaLung owns Sea Quest now)

The MR-12 III first stage is in my opinion an excellent design that has stood the test of time. It is a true workhorse. I just don't see where anyone could question the quality. I have always stood behind Mares Regs, and Fins. I have never liked their B.C.'s, and have to agree 100% with everyone about the H.U.B. I would'nt put it on my worst enemy.

As far as Scuba Pro equipment is concerned, I have always believed it is not really worth the premium you pay. I just don't see any added quality or performance. And for the average diver, it is quite a bit more expensive to get serviced. It is desent gear, I just feel it is not worth the price.

Sherwood is has great durability, very simple design, easy to repair, but they have some hard breathing regulators.

The USD, AquaLung and Sea Quest regs, are designed well, have great ease of breathing, but I have found their relialability to be a little lacking.

And to respond to someone's earlier post, as an instructor I have never been approached (or even seen a offer) by a Mares rep. for complementary gear, or a discount on gear. (I can not say the same thing about AquaLung and SeaQuest) I formed these opinions on my on.

But anyway, like I said, these are just my opinions. You guys seem to feel pretty strongly about the Apeks. I would like to get my hands on one and give it a go.

Later

 

[Scuba446]

Recently I had an opportunity to try a friends Mares MR12 Axis 1st stage and 2ns stage. I must admit, its performance made me take a 2nd look at the Mares line up.

While not a deep diver, I used the Mares up to 50 ft, with no problems and very easy breathing. The mouthpiece is comfortable, and the purge works smooth and easy, with a nice purge cover that just 'feels' right.

Changed my opinion of Mares 100%. I can buy a MR12 Axis from Lesiure Pro for a mere $140. That makes it a great buy, in my book, and will be my workhorse reg for my 19 cu in pony.