Mask removal help

[pittyyofool]

next time you are in the pool, kneel in the shallow end with no mask on, so your eyes are above the surface and your nose is below. Put a regulator in your mouth and practice breathing. -in mouth, out nose, in mouth, out nose, in mouth, out nose... practicing "on the surface" will help ease the fear.

 

[Riger]

How can you be doing the advanced class without doing your checkout dives for OW? If you are not comfortable with taking the mask off and putting it back on underwater you are not ready to get out of the pool yet! What kind of shop or instructor is allowing you to do this? This is nuts and why people die!

Jesus H Christ! Are standards that loose that they are allowed to do this? I don't think so. WHat agency are you with? As far as I know all of them require you to remove and replace or at least clear a fully flooded mask at depth. How did you get thru the no mask swim in the pool? What you need to do spend alot more time in the pool removing and replacing the mask until it's no longer an issue. Then you'll be ready for your checkouts. Until then going into open water is a BIG MISTAKE!

Whilst JimLap may not say things in a soft & fuzzy feeling manner, his frustration is absolutely spot on.

In a parrallel thread, there is an ongoing discussion about a very recently qualified OW diver who went on a dive plan that took them down to 100'/30m. The diver died and, the brunt of the discussion is now focussed on the DiveMaster and his responsibilities.

The point is this, the diluting of any training program related to activities carried out by people who are removed from their natural environment, is not acceptable.

If individuals choose to apply their own standards then that should be done on their own with no risk to others around them to get hurt or blamed. The same counts for instructors, if they choose to exersise their own standards, they should teach manikins in their own backyard pool.


How much compromise is acceptable?

Depth limitations - 1' / 10' / 100' ?

Mask skills - Comfortable & compitent / able with assistance / OK on the surface?

NDL's - 1min / 5min / 15min provided I am following my buddy's computer?

At some point, this dilution of established standards effects others, in the worst cases, it is death and/or legal ramifications.

To the OP - Canoe513

Please do not take this as an attack on you or your skills, this is symptomatic of a larger problem. I hope you get comfortable with your skills, once you "get it" it is easy. Good Luck.

Best Regards

Richard

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Agreed. I was in a little bit of a mood last night due to the other thread that was alluded to. This business of allowing students to move on when they have not "mastered" basic skills in the pool and are entirely comfortable with them is indicative of the BS that is going on in the industry today. Someone questioned the time of 21 minutes spent on mask skills. I do basic mask removal and replace shallow and deep, horizontal and swimming, in every pool session and my class is 6-8 weeks long. Removing and replacing the mask kneeling on the pool bottom and considering that as "mastery of the skill" is stupid. I guess it's fine if you are going to dive in that position in those conditions every time. I spent one 2 hour private session with someone to make sure they had the skill down pat and was completely comfortable with it. Then I allowed her to move on to the next session. There are numerous ways to try and help someone with this skill and they all work at some point with someone. But there is no substitute for practice once the basics are down. Even if it means laying on the bottom of the pool in a horizontal position for an entire session just removing and replacing the mask. If this still does not instill comfort then perhaps a new sport is called for.

 

[JDMerk]

The Op stated: I have completed the ow class and I am now doing the advance class, I have not made any of my certification dives yet.

Perhaps that tells us he/ she is OW certified and working on the advanced level?.

I read that to say that the OP is NOT certified but has completed the classroom section of OW and perhaps is working on the classroom section of AOW right now. You may have read something else into it but my own logic dictates that if you have not completed your checkout dives you are NOT certified.

If what your getting at is that you need to be proficient with your mask skills before you actually GET certified then yes I agree whole heartedly...
That is the point I believe we should help him/her get to, and I believe that is precisely the help that was requested.

 

[Walter]

I am fairly comfertable with all the skills I have learned so far, except anything to do with mask removal.

Fairly comfortable is an excellent start, but not nearly enough. You need to have your skills down pat. You need to be able to easily complete them as if they were second nature.

As for you being uncomfortable with no mask breathing, that's something you can fix in a relatively short time.

Often, important skills are left out of OW classes. Take your time and practice each step until you are comfortable before moving to the next.

Leave your SCUBA gear in your bag. You only need 3 things at the pool at this point. 1. Mask 2. Snorkel 3. Weight belt with weight.

At no point will you leave the shallow end of the pool.

Take your snorkel off your mask and put on your weight belt. With your mask on the pool deck, your snorkel in your hand and your weight belt on, get into the shallow end of the pool. You should be where when you stand you are no deeper than chest deep, waist deep is even better. Put your snorkel in your mouth and breathe from it. Now, bend over and breathe through your snorkel while you dip your face into the water. If you are comfortable, stay awhile until you feel natural. If you have difficulty, think about drinking through a straw while you practice the excercise. Remember, you can always stand up straight to end the excercise at any time. If you need to, you can slowly build up your time until you feel comfortable.

Next, practice dropping underwater, allowing the snorkel to flood and coming up to blast it clear, leaving your face in the water. Continue until you are comfortable

At this point, you have accomplished three important things.

1. You lowered your anxiety level by working in a no risk (shallow) environment.
2. You became an expert in no mask breathing.
3. You know you can breathe with a flooded mask.

Now, put your snorkel down and pick up your mask. Put it on and drop down to your knees. Break the seal just enough to allow a small amount of water in. Clear the mask. Do not pull out on the bottom, merely push in on the top while looking up. The biggest mistake most people make is not looking up. The second most common mistake people make is not exhaling through their nose. Keep your mouth closed. Repeat this until you are comfortable. Don't forget to stand up and catch your breath between clearings. Now, increase the amount of water you allow into the mask to about ¼ flooded. When you are comfortable with that level, move to ½, then to a fully flooded mask. When you've reached the point you can clear it easily every time, see how many times you can clear it on one breath. After you are at this point, clearing your mask will be easy. You will have reached it in a step by step manner that was easy to accomplish.

Remember, you can always stand up if you feel uncomfortable.

Just simply use your fingers to pinch your nose shut after you take off your mask.

That's a dangerous crutch. Don't do it.

he didn't ask for you to berate him and tell him he or those like him are going to die.

Jim did not berate Canoe513. He did berate any instructor that has a class as described by Canoe513 and rightly so. Jim is well aware, as are many of the rest of us that Canoe513 is the victim, not the bad guy. Jim is trying to prevent Canoe513 from becoming more of a victim.

 

[teddyg04]

Several posters have offered excellent ways to become comfortable with mask clearing; except for pinching your nose, they are all good ways to overcome your anxiety. One instructor I worked with (once the class became comfortable with stationary mask clearing) would accompany each diver around the pool on a mask-free swim. This was a way to show them that they could function without a mask, while reassuring them they were safe.

Try several of the suggested methods, find one that works for you, and practice, practice, practice. It's a vital skill, both for safety and for comfort. For instance, I have yet to find a mask that doesn't leak (I must have a wierd head shape....), so I often have to clear during a dive. It's so routine I don't even think about it. And we all have the joy at one point of having a buddy knock our mask loose.

Don't stress too much over this; it's a common challenge to new divers. Just get your instructor to work with you, and soon you'll wonder why you ever worried about it.

 

[Zieg]

I read that to say that the OP is NOT certified but has completed the classroom section of OW and perhaps is working on the classroom section of AOW right now. You may have read something else into it but my own logic dictates that if you have not completed your checkout dives you are NOT certified.

If what your getting at is that you need to be proficient with your mask skills before you actually GET certified then yes I agree whole heartedly...
That is the point I believe we should help him/her get to, and I believe that is precisely the help that was requested.

Perhaps you should read it again. The OP stated they had completed OW.

 

[Peter Guy]

Honest qustion: You really spent around 21 minutes (conservativley) per student on just mask clearing on a single training dive?

I'm with Jim here -- spend as long as is needed to actually "Master" this "simple skill." This is really one of the most important foundational skills and when actually "mastered" the rest will probably be pretty simple.

Once a diver is truly comfortable with being able to manipulate water in her mask, including being able to manipulate it while just hanging in the water, i.e. true "mastery" the other skills are really pretty trivial IMHO.

In my other sporting activity, Dressage, the "highest level of mastery" by the horse and rider is the Grand Prix. One of the "Old Dead Guys" (our name for the "old masters" as opposed to the current trainers) used to say "It takes 2 years to train a horse to Grand Prix -- 18 months to teach them to walk, trot and canter -- 6 months for everything else."

I think the same is true in diving skills. IF you take the time to get a very solid base, the rest is easy. But if you don't ever take the time to ensure the base (comfort in the water) is solid, everything else will always be tentative.

 

[KTPdiver]

I used to hate emptying my mask - but you need to overcome this to be a safe diver. Spend as much time in a swimming pool, with a mask on but more importantly with a mask off. Pinching your nose helps - until you are calm and know you won't breath through your nose. If you are really worried about it, go back to the instructor who took your pool session and ask if you can get in and practice - you're still their responsibility and you've paid good money!!

Make sure you let your new/referral instructor knows you are worried about it - they may give you some confined help but it's no good to either of you if you keep quiet and then have a big panic on your OW dive. You will be asked to fill your mask on dives 2/3 and remove it completely on dive 4 (this is PADI, others are similar). Good luck.

Practice and knowing you can do it (without freak out) is the only way....

 

[Darcey]

I had a horrid time dealing with mask skills. I won't go into detail because none of that matters...but I did manage to get through my fear. I will admit, to this day I don't like doing it but I know that I can do it if I have to. Part of my problem was a) it was an ice cold freaking lake in IL and b) the exhaust bubbles kept going up my nose. With the help of my instructor and his DM wife we figured out how to do it and I'll be working on my divemaster here soon and this is what I'll be teaching students who have mask problems.

We found that that if I tilt my head to one side so the bubbles would go away from my face, removed my mask and then put the MASK part back on my face WITHOUT screwing with the strap and cleared the mask while holding it to my face and THEN put the strap on I could do it. It took a few rounds of trying this before I could do it to passing standard but putting the mask on the face without messing with the strap until the mask is cleared helps a ton. Granted, the ice cold water is something you can't do anything about except for brace yourself and pray that you don't get too shocked and snort water. I found that sticking my face in the water pre-dive helped with the icy shock that was later coming.

Good luck!