Max depth for new divers

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vondo:
You think this is drama? You should do a search for some of the other threads discussing this topic. :) Now that's drama!!!

Wow...you weren't kidding. I just read some of those! I guess I could have researched more before posting mine. But I swear I'm not a troll. :wink:

I was really just curious.
 
Incidentally -

I was surprised reading those older posts (some from 2001-2002), it seemed the Overwhelming response to the same question as I posted was - Stay Within the Limit! Wow...what a difference 4-5 years makes!

Some old replies -

" There are those in Cozumel that will let you go about anywhere. IMO, 100 ft is too deep for a novice. And people want to blame the agencies for all the incompetence we see today in diving. How do we convince divers they need more training when an OW card gets them on any dive?"

"It seems that many of the dive groups in the Carib play fast and loose with the rules. Maybe it is the unlimited vis and warm water."

"I'm AOW Deep certified, but I certainly won't go below 100 feet on air to begin with, and I won't go below 60-70 without a redundant air source or a buddy I really trust."

"Think hard about the risk you're taking... imagine all the things that can go wrong at 112' and if you're prepared to handle them. Are you really going to do an air sharing ascent from 112 feet on that 36" octo hose, and will you have sufficient air? When you suddenly run out of air at 112 feet, is your buddy *always* close enough for you to get that octo in a second or two?"

Of course what defines a "novice"? Well IMO, a "novice" would definitely be someone with less than 20 dives.

So I am back to my original stance and sticking with 60-70' feet until I get more experience and training. Why take unnecessary risks? A lot of people on this board have TONS of experience and advanced certifications and I completely and totally respect that. But until I have the same - I am not going to push the limits.
 
Some good information here.

Safety and comfort are the most important things. Even if you are following the "recommendations" yet you are not comfortable, then you are not necessarily safe. If the non-instructing personel give you a hard time about being one of "those" people, they are idiots. They were probably one of "those" people and got intimidated so they think it's OK to do it to everyone else. It's akin to skiers who take their friends to a black diamond hill when they have never skied before because that's how they were taught.

Inquire with the dive shop or charter before the trip. Is there anything at 60'? Or is the entire dive deeper? How will they accommodate you? If they do not have means for you to stay at your comfort level, ask if someone (DM) will stay with you. If they cannot accommodate your needs, find a new dive shop.

As an instructor, If I have your concerns ahead of time I can work with you to try and make your dive as enjoyable as possible. If we're headed to a reef at 80' and you come up to me and tell me while everyone is donning gear that you are not comfortable at that depth, it makes it difficult from my perspective. So discuss everything before hand and make sure you feel comfortable. With that being said, to progress, you have to learn to try new things-under the right circumstances.

Good Luck!
 
MPR:
It's akin to skiers who take their friends to a black diamond hill when they have never skied before because that's how they were taught.

Funny you should mention that about skiing. We usually only get to ski one time per year. Just like diving.....1 time per year. And we have been skiing for about 5 years and I just this past February, started going on blues.

Maybe I really am a wimpy overly cautious person. :05: If so, it's just because I'm old. Kids have no fear.

But staying on green runs never bothered me, because we always went some place different so I was never bored. And I was still perfecting my skills.

Same with diving. We go to different places each time. There is plenty to see so I am not bored (I don't see how anyone could EVER be bored diving, no matter what). And I am perfecting my skills.

I am happy where I am and will work my way up on my own time. I don't need anyone pushing me to more advanced Blue ski runs or deeper dives. I will get there eventually.

Cheers!
 
zinnia7:
Funny you should mention that about skiing. We usually only get to ski one time per year. Just like diving.....1 time per year. And we have been skiing for about 5 years and I just this past February, started going on blues.

Maybe I really am a wimpy overly cautious person. :05: If so, it's just because I'm old. Kids have no fear.

But staying on green runs never bothered me, because we always went some place different so I was never bored. And I was still perfecting my skills.

Same with diving. We go to different places each time. There is plenty to see so I am not bored (I don't see how anyone could EVER be bored diving, no matter what). And I am perfecting my skills.

I am happy where I am and will work my way up on my own time. I don't need anyone pushing me to more advanced Blue ski runs or deeper dives. I will get there eventually.

Cheers!

How did skiing get in here? Funny it is also one of my favorite sports. I have skiied the black diamonds before but I am older and slower now with bad knees. Now I stick to the green circles and blue squares and have a wonderful time anyway.

If you don't feel comfortable diving deep and want to stay at shallower depths, good for you. Just dive the profile you want to dive just because that's what you want to do. If anyone pressures you to go deeper just say I am more comfortable at 60 - 70 feet and want to dive there. Most of us will respect that. I like that depth because there is great stuff to see and you have all kinds of bottom time.

Just pleeease don't make the excuse that PADI says that OW divers are not to go below 60 ft because we will Dieeeee :lightingz narcosis, lionfish, tigersharks, and scuba diving bears, Oh My. If there's a diver around who has been diving 10+ years that dog don't hunt. The more polite of us will roll our eyes back and sadly shake our heads. I tend to slap my forehead and walk off muttering about the sad shape of today's dive training. As far as I can tell this has come up within the last 10 years along with about 2/3rds of the specialties. I think it is more of a revenue thing than a diving thing.

There is nothing wrong with being a cautious natured person. Just bring it up prior to the charter and join the right boat. I have no problem diving shallow reefs if I was planning on diving shallow reefs. I don't like paying and planning on diving deeper wrecks, walls, and blue holes and end up diving shallow reefs and wrecks just because there are two divers on the charter who can't dive the deeper stuff.
 
Sorry to bring up skiing on a diving forum! Just another expensive hobby of mine. (we won't talk about the boat.)

And I would not use the excuse "that PADI says" as the reason for not doing something. And now I wish I would not have even quoted the PADI book in my original message! But I just thought the guidelines were established for a reason and they sounded like good ones to follow.

And I would certainly not want to ruin anyone elses dive. When we are at Anthony's Key next week I am only going to sign up for the dives I feel comfortable with.
 
zinnia7:
When we are at Anthony's Key next week I am only going to sign up for the dives I feel comfortable with.

One other thing you might try. Even if Anthony's only has boats doing deeper things you are not interested in, ask them about another charter. They may even come get you. It may cost you extra, but dive ops will work together to keep their customers happy. My last trip they shop I went with called around every night for a week trying to rustle up 6 people to go to a distant location. Of course, if you want a day on the beach, take it. Nothing wrong with that either.
 
Zinna, you should always dive within your comfort zone. It doesn't matter why. As far as getting old, my mortality becoming clearer as the years slip by...:wink:
 
zinnia7:
Sorry to bring up skiing on a diving forum! Just another expensive hobby of mine. (we won't talk about the boat.)

And I would not use the excuse "that PADI says" as the reason for not doing something. And now I wish I would not have even quoted the PADI book in my original message! But I just thought the guidelines were established for a reason and they sounded like good ones to follow.

And I would certainly not want to ruin anyone elses dive. When we are at Anthony's Key next week I am only going to sign up for the dives I feel comfortable with.

What kind of boat do you have? :D

Sorry don't mean to get on my soapbox and preach. By all means dive your comfort level and training. And don't take it that I wouldn't want you to dive with me or on a boat I am diving. You and your husband seem like very good divers. You've a good recognition of your limitations and don't feel comfortable exceeding them. You are probably not going to worry a rescue diver or divemaster. You dive the type of diving that you want to. We could dive reefs all day long however you probably wouldn't be comfortable diving with us on the U-352 this summer http://www.nc-wreckdiving.com/WRECKS/U352/U352.HTML . This is one of the reasons to consider learning deeper diving techniques.

I do have an issue with some of the modern training and guidelines. I believe that some of the dive training now unnessarily scares new divers about depths and narcosis. There are a few extra precautions that you need to take and extra stuff you need to be aware of for dives to 90-120 feet. At recreational depths narcosis will not be a hazard for the overwhelmingly vast majority of divers. The guidelines and training have also changed over the years.

If I could find my old YMCA card you and I would have the same basic open water certification. I doubt that our classes were similar. Here is some of the training topics and guidelines from my Open Water Scuba class. I still have my scuba books from my YMCA Scuba Diver course 23 years ago. At that time YMCA had three diver designations. The first book taught Diving equipment, the diver, the environment, and dive activities. In this book 100 ft was the recommended max depth for a new inexperienced diver and 130 ft the recommended sportdiver depth. There is a section on decompression diving in this book. The second book discusses advanced topics such as Scuba equipment (specialized and maintenance), boat diving, underwater navigation, limited visibility diving, diver stress, diver rescue, and deep diving. In this book the maximum reasonable depth is 190 feet. They spend a chapter talking about deep diving and decompression diving. The US Navy Decompression Tables are in both books.

This course took me about 4 months of two night a week classroom and pool work sessions and two weekends of open water certifying dives. It cost about $472. The scuba certfying agencies realized that this was a bit much for a large percentage of divers who like the type of diving that you do and have no intention of diving the Andrea Doria. Also a lot of divers simply don't have the time to devote themselves to one class for that long. So they shortened the basic class and started the diving specialities. They also make more money that way. How many of today's specialities were covered in my open water class? :wink:
 
Diveral:
This course took me about 4 months of two night a week classroom and pool work sessions and two weekends of open water certifying dives. It cost about $472. The scuba certfying agencies realized that this was a bit much for a large percentage of divers who like the type of diving that you do and have no intention of diving the Andrea Doria. Also a lot of divers simply don't have the time to devote themselves to one class for that long. So they shortened the basic class and started the diving specialities. They also make more money that way. How many of today's specialities were covered in my open water class? :wink:

That $472 23 years ago is just about $1000 today. At typical prices that might "buy" you OW+AOW+2-3 specialties today. That's 15-20 open water dives.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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