Misc BP/Wing questions

[cool_hardware52]

No... seriously... what's wrong with wingnuts?

Removing them hurts your hands? C'mon. It aint that bad.

The bolts on doubles lead a hard life. They get dinged up. All it takes is a small burr or imperfection on the male bolt threads and you run the risk of the wing nut galling (friction welding) Stainless steel to stainless steel threaded connections are notorius for this.

That's exactly why FredT uses "blue moly", to prevent galling.

I've had to break out the crescent wrench to remove stubborn Stainless wing nuts. Another benefit (in addition to those I already listed above) to delrin thumbwheels is that thwy will easily tolerate an imperfect thread, they simply deform around the "bump" in the threads.

By intentionally cutting the threads in the thumbwheels slightly undersized the thumbwheels are self retaining, not need for a lock washer.

Apparently many agree with me as I can barely keep these babies in stock.

Tobin

 

[GreenDiverDown]

The bolts on doubles lead a hard life. They get dinged up. All it takes is a small burr or imperfection on the male bolt threads and you run the risk of the wing nut galling (friction welding) Stainless steel to stainless steel threaded connections are notorius for this.

That's exactly why FredT uses "blue moly", to prevent galling.

Yes... blue moly is great. Where it really helps is under the nut that holds the band. That's the one that most often will seize... not so much the wingnuts. Either way, everyone should use blue moly. When the day comes to pull apart their twins it might save the bolt. Plus, the job will be much easier.

I've had to break out the crescent wrench to remove stubborn Stainless wing nuts.

I'm surprised you could get it off with a wrench. I've had several seized band nuts (never a seized wingnut) that had to be CUT off. The harder you wrench on 'em the tighter they seize.

Apparently many agree with me as I can barely keep these babies in stock.

Tobin

I'm sure that the retainers that you sell are very nice. My point was that wingnuts really work just fine.

 

[Tamas]

Speaking of the DSS thumbwheels, what are the Q-tachs and what do they do? I have a hard time envisioning their purpose or function.

The Q-Tach Retainers make the Delrin Thumbwheels “Captive”

 

[cool_hardware52]

Speaking of the DSS thumbwheels, what are the Q-tachs and what do they do? I have a hard time envisioning their purpose or function.

If you have a DSS back plate the Q-Tach are keepers for the thumbwheels. The Q-Tach mount using the "other" set of holes in the backplate. The holes need to be 1" apart.

The thumbwheels have a groove around the OD. This groove snaps into the Q-Tach.

That way you have no loose parts, the thumbwheels stay on the backplate, but are free to turn, and can easily be snapped out if you need a different size.


Toin

 

[terrasmak]

How so? What's wrong with wingnuts? We've been using them for years.

You don't need to mess with 'em at all if you are just swapping out tanks... no need to separate the plate and STA.

I change between doubles and singles all the time at the dive site . I havnt figured out how to pull the doubles off the plate to swap tanks without undoing the thumbwheels.

 

[cecilb63]

Yes... blue moly is great. Where it really helps is under the nut that holds the band. That's the one that most often will seize... not so much the wingnuts. Either way, everyone should use blue moly. When the day comes to pull apart their twins it might save the bolt. Plus, the job will be much easier.




I'm surprised you could get it off with a wrench. I've had several seized band nuts (never a seized wingnut) that had to be CUT off. The harder you wrench on 'em the tighter they seize.




I'm sure that the retainers that you sell are very nice. My point was that wingnuts really work just fine.

yep, just hackawed a bolt last night that had seized. wasn't coming off any other way

 

[GreenDiverDown]

Oh those make life so much easier , i just need to order another set for my STA. If your diving with a Halcyon style pocket on your plate it makes it easier to swap tanks around over normal wingnuts.

I change between doubles and singles all the time at the dive site . I havnt figured out how to pull the doubles off the plate to swap tanks without undoing the thumbwheels.

You should use wingnuts, then.

No... you suggested that somehow these thumbwheels make it easier to swap tanks out when using a Halcyon pocket on the plate.

So... what's the trick? How do thumbwheels make that easier?

If you guys like your thumbwheels then right on... more power to ya, brother. Maybe they're great. I haven't heard of any failures with them... although I suspect they aint perfect.

For me? Well... I'll just stick to the traditional, tried and true wingnuts.

So... back to the topic...

SS... another solution for you would be to put a few washers under the head of the bolt on the backside of the bands effectively shortening the bolt. Maybe not the cleanest solution but it would work and it would save cutting your bolts should you later decide to go back to the original length.

 

[Scared Silly]

So I headed down to my local SS fastener supplier and picked up an extra set of nuts and a few washers. I used the nut as a spacer along with a washer and that seems to help quite a bit. I also checked to see if the wing was still nicely sandwiched between the plate and the tank. It seemed pretty good. So instead of cutting the bolts I will give this a try. Thanks again everyone.

Now if I could just figure out whether to go to a smaller wing. I think some of it just that I am not used the the wing lying completely flat when empty as the wing on my Ranger had gussets with a bit of elastic to pull it in.

 

[terrasmak]

You should use wingnuts, then.

No... you suggested that somehow these thumbwheels make it easier to swap tanks out when using a Halcyon pocket on the plate.

So... what's the trick? How do thumbwheels make that easier?

If you guys like your thumbwheels then right on... more power to ya, brother. Maybe they're great. I haven't heard of any failures with them... although I suspect they aint perfect.

For me? Well... I'll just stick to the traditional, tried and true wingnuts.

So... back to the topic...

SS... another solution for you would be to put a few washers under the head of the bolt on the backside of the bands effectively shortening the bolt. Maybe not the cleanest solution but it would work and it would save cutting your bolts should you later decide to go back to the original length.

They are easier to grab from the side , and easier to turn with the extra wings on them, easier to balance while trying the get the initial thread ( the flat top design compaired to a wingnut with just the wings sticking up ) IMO they are well worth the couple $$$ I paid for them.

Oh ya and i keep my wingnuts in my save a dive kit . Something i didnt have in there before.

Forgot one more , carrying the double and you accidently turn the bolt side twords you , they dont jab you as hard . The thread on the bolt is protected , and there is no wing sticking out to tear your skin.

 

[*Floater*]

If you guys like your thumbwheels then right on... more power to ya, brother. Maybe they're great. I haven't heard of any failures with them... although I suspect they aint perfect.

For me? Well... I'll just stick to the traditional, tried and true wingnuts.

I use the DSS thumbwheels as well (without q-tachs). There's nothing wrong with wingnuts, but I still prefer the thumbwheels better and I think they are less likely to come loose by themselves. I once lost a wingnut on a dive (well, the DM went back for it and recovered it), though it was my fault for not tightening it adequately.

As for failures, you are not supposed to screw the thumbwheels in 'all the way' or they will break, which someone on another forum said they experienced.