Need help for decision Xccr vs liberty or BMoptima

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I am biased towards the CM. Not saying it is the unit for you but if you want to do some research this site has a ton of information on it.

www.Choptima.com

I would be happy to answer any specific questions as well that come up.
 
I can’t blame you for that. It is an issue but i never understood why this is such a big deal. The only time I saw someone had some real trouble removing the head was after he dived in somewhere that’s literally pumping sand lol.

Christian used to say XCCR was his favourite when I did my initial ccr training with him. I don’t know if he changed his mind after he became instructor on some new units in the past few years.
Still the same!! Xccr it’s his unit of choice!
 
I talked to Christian but he teach like 7 unit so it’s hard to get to decide…. sorry Hao, the JJ a lot of people even a Gue tech in Qc city complain about the head and sand… that’s why it’s lower on the list!
can't be as bad as cave divers complain about grit in the lids of the JJ....
 
so basically I narrow down my decision to these 3 unit. I’m looking for review, issue , comments anything for those unit! I’m in Canada, dunno if this helps or no! I’m not travelling often with the unit.

Which one will you go for?!?
I am obviously biased in that I dive, service, sell, and instruct on the Optimas.
I chose that unit because of support within the country. It has been a very solid unit for me over the last decade. I have only ever missed one dive because of an issue and it was actually a Divesoft service issue, not a Dive Rite issue. The downside is it uses relatively wonky tanks if you are traveling and want to rent. The upside is a reliable easy to dive and maintain unit that is backed by a US company that is easy to deal with. I also have an XCCR sitting in my basement and I owned a Liberty BM for awhile though I don't teach on either.
 
I am obviously biased in that I dive, service, sell, and instruct on the Optimas.
I chose that unit because of support within the country. It has been a very solid unit for me over the last decade. I have only ever missed one dive because of an issue and it was actually a Divesoft service issue, not a Dive Rite issue. The downside is it uses relatively wonky tanks if you are traveling and want to rent. The upside is a reliable easy to dive and maintain unit that is backed by a US company that is easy to deal with. I also have an XCCR sitting in my basement and I owned a Liberty BM for awhile though I don't teach on either.
Ok but for your personal use, if you don’t teach which unit do you like the best, I’ve just demo two of them and still can’t decide.. dunno if it’s me or it’s the same for everyone, hard to decide for a first Ccr!
 
Ok but for your personal use, if you don’t teach which unit do you like the best, I’ve just demo two of them and still can’t decide.. dunno if it’s me or it’s the same for everyone, hard to decide for a first Ccr!
I like the BM Optima, that is why I choose to teach that one.
 
I've been diving the Freedom computer on my mCCR for years, it is vastly superior to the Shearwater IMO, though the Petrel 3 at least has vibrate now. The biggest thing is the Divesoft lets you manually disable cells if you know they are going bad vs. blindly following the voting algorithm.

It's his first CCR. How important is the ability to disable an individual cell to him? REALLY. No other unit that I know of can do that. Yet people are doing plenty of successful dives with other units...

You do very long cave dives with your unit. So, okay, that feature is important to you. Should it actually be any kind of priority to HIM? Your priorities are not the same as his. His priorities may never be the same as yours, but if he's looking for his first CCR, then it's likely years away before his priorities MIGHT even align with yours.

Personally, I would not buy a unit that used other than Shearwater electronics. So, the Divesoft would be off the list for me, just right there.

Also, my personal experience with my Divesoft trimix analyzer would also push me away from buying a CCR from them. They make design decisions that, umm, result in very inconvenient situations for me.

Examples:

I let a friend use my analyzer with the Divesoft Pro flow limiter. They accidentally let the bleed screw turn too far and it came out. That let a 5mm ball bearing fall out, which was, of course, not able to be found. And it turns out that the flow limiter won't work anymore without that ball bearing. Why would you design that part like that?!?! Make the ball bearing captured. Or even better, design the bleed screw so it seals pretty much any other way but via a tiny ball bearing!

Another time, the two parts of my flow limiter got a little loose - i.e. one unscrewed just a tiny bit from the other. That allowed the O-ring between them to extrude and was ruined. Well, guess what? That O-ring was very close in size to a DIN valve O-ring or a Yoke valve O-ring. I had both. Neither one would work?!? Who, in their right mind, designs a piece of dive gear that uses an O-ring of that approximate size, but makes it different from both, where neither a DIN nor a Yoke O-ring will work as a replacement?!?!

I can only imagine what similar frustrations one might experience in living with a Divesoft CCR.

Honestly though, IMO no one should be buying a brand new CCR right now unless you absolutely have to. The first one to come out with optical sensors from the factory is going to be so far ahead of everyone else in terms of safety of the units that it isn't even funny. Sure Poseidon has had them for a while but they've been prohibitively expensive, now you can get them for $400-$500 each and you not only have a legitimate financial ROI on the sensors but you also have an immense safety improvement. Wait if you can.

Was the first of any type of innovative product ever rock solid?

I am looking forward to solid state sensors. Someday. I would definitely not be holding out now to make the first one be my first CCR. They can be out for at least a couple of years, and hopefully from more than one manufacturer, before I'd consider jumping on that bandwagon.

I had a FB conversation recently with the guy (Arne) from Oxygen Scientific that is bringing out the new solid state sensors for $400 - 500. He finally admitted that he had absolutely no DATA to support any claim that those sensors will make CCR diving safer.

What data do you have to support the statement that they will give an "immense safety improvement"? That makes it sound like current CCRs have a large inherent factor of "unsafeness". I don't buy that. Any of the modern, mainstream units you can get are VERY safe. So, what is this immense safety improvement going to be? You're going to reduce a 10% chance of a failure that puts the diver at some kind of risk of harm to a 1% chance? Or are you going to reduce a 0.001% chance to a 0.0001% chance?

Those $400 - 500 solid state sensors still have to be replaced every 5 years. You need a minimum of 2, regardless, for redundancy.

And I have asked and not gotten answer on what happens if those cells get immersed in caustic. Do they survive reliably? Short out and die?

Don't get me wrong. I agree that solid state O2 sensors are the way of the future. But, I don't see any actual support for the claim that they will make CCR diving "immensely" safer.

I will be giving them time to become widely used outside of Oxygen Scientific's own testing, and see how they really stand up to the real world before I'll be jumping on that particular bandwagon.

If the OP is ready to get into CCR diving, I would definitely recommend buying something sooner, rather than later, that has a proven track record, good support from the factory in the area where he'll be using it, and has Shearwater electronics.

My personal opinion.
 
so basically I narrow down my decision to these 3 unit. I’m looking for review, issue , comments anything for those unit! I’m in Canada, dunno if this helps or no! I’m not travelling often with the unit.

Which one will you go for?!?

I dive a rEvo and a Choptima. I have never dived any of the 3 units you're looking at.

I would not go for the Divesoft for the reasons I already posted.

I like the X and the O2ptima (in the BM counterlung form). At least, on paper - like I said, I have not dived either one.

Personally, I would probably go with the O2ptima, just because Dive Rite is based in North America and they have given me excellent customer service. I will never have to wait for a part to come over on a boat from Europe for my Choptima. I don't know what the situation is with getting parts from iqSub when it turns out that the North American importers don't have what you need in stock. I would want to find out about that before committing to an X.

But, I think the X and the O2ptima are both good units. I think I would be happy with either one. I really want to try the O2ptima. The really short, low volume breathing loop is appealing to me, and I'd like to see how it actually breathes in the real world. That, the back mount counter lungs, and the BOV with integrated manual adds, for a VERY clean and clutter-free chest area really appeals to me.
 
Just my 2 psi so take it with a grain of salt - I'm a newer CCR diver and have owned 2 units (the Choptima and the Subgravity Defender). I am currently diving the Defender and ended up selling my Choptima.

I really liked how compact the Choptima was and how easy it was to use with different configurations (BM, SM, single tank). It's also easy to travel with. I ended up selling it for a few different reasons, mainly because I was not a fan of of having a cluttered chest (I am a BM doubles diver so having everything on my back was what I was used to and comfortable with). I was also not a fan of the positive pressure that having the counterlungs on your chest creates and I believe it led to some soft palate issues which I found very uncomfortable. I also had some issues with the early connectors stripping which led to a flooded unit (I had them switched out to the newer ones so I don't think that would be an issue anymore). Bottom line: I had some issues and some dislikes that led me to sell my unit in favor of something different. But, the unit is robust and I dive with people that have done some pretty serious dives on the Choptima without issue.

I ended up purchasing the Defender since I wanted a more traditional BM unit and I know the Defender has a tried and true heritage and the quality of the unit is top notch. I also like Subgravity as a brand and find them to be very responsive and accommodating and I believe the manufacturing done by iQsub is also top notch. The Defender is essentially a stripped down version of the XCCR without Shearwater electronics (probably my biggest con with the Defender but you can run a Petrel as a monitor - the controller is a Subgravity product though). The Defender and XCCR share most of the same components and are built on the same "frame" if you will. The XCCR uses Shearwater electronics and has a different head with some different features that you can choose to use or exclude.

Overall, I really like the BM unit vs. the Choptima since it is more like wearing a set of doubles, I prefer the BM counterlungs to the CM counterlungs, and I feel like the manufacturing quality of the Defender/XCCR is very high. I'm very happy with the unit so far and hope to continue diving it for many years to come. I would not hesitate to purchase an XCCR in the future if I wanted to "upgrade" or needed to replace my Defender for whatever reason.
 
These O2 sensors have been in industry for a lot of years, no different than galvanic cells, diving is not a priority for this market.
As far as safety improvements, it is about failure modes. Failure on a galvanic cell usually results in inaccurate readings which have lead to fatalities and near-misses because people think they are breathing one gas and not what is actually in the loop. Solid state cells when implemented in a full digital system have signal validation and are either "working" or "dead", no risk of misinformation from the cells is a huge safety improvement. I'd much rather a cell be dead than have it give me bad information
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

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