Need some advice to help a friend

[T.C.]

Hello Friends, I have a conundrum that I would like your help with. Our dive club is soon to go on a trip, one that many of us have long looked forward to. A good friend of mine has been looking forward to this trip, but due to several factors, only recently decided to go. She paid the full cost of the trip, over $1,000.

A short time ago, she was injured on the job. She will not be able to go, and hadn’t bought trip insurance. Knowing this, she worked hard and found a couple (one diver, one non-diver) to take her place, which is agreeable with her roommate. When this couple approached the shop owner to go on the trip, he had them pay the full cost of the trip, for both the diver and non-diver. So now he has their money, and hers.

My question is this: Should the shop owner repay my friend her money, now that she found someone to take her place? Should he refund the couple the cost of the diver’s money, and they repay my friend? Should he be allowed to keep both my friend’s money, and the couple’s?

I feel that he should refund the couple their money, keeping the cost of the non-diver, and have them repay my friend. In my view, everyone wins; my friend gets her money back, the couple pays a fair cost (the original cost) for the trip, and the shop owner is fairly paid for the people going.

As it is, he is making that $1,000 from my friend as profit, taking advantage of the fact she was hurt and didn’t have insurance, and ignoring the fact that she did the work of finding a replacement for her. He is treating this couple unethically, by charging them for a room that was already paid for. I think he owes someone this $1,000 dollars back.
Is my opinion right? Am I wrong? I would like to hear your thoughts, from divers, and especially shop owners.

And the final question, if he refuses to refund any of this money, what should she do? Would a complaint to the Better Business Bureau be justified and effective? Would a claim in Small Claims Court be justified?

I look forward to your opinions. My apologies if this doesn't fit in this forum.

 

[bracko]

why did they pay?

personally... I'd run a mile from that argument. You will either upset the Dive shop that if you are a long standing customer of & might damage your relationship with the club, or you risk dragging other members into it and you're seen as the bad guy within the club.

Is this your fight to be in? I'm assuming all people involved are adults and able to solve this one way or another on their own.

I'd stay away from it all, I don't see how you can add value and be part of the solution.

 

[GrimSleeper]

I've no idea where anybody stands legally, but the shop owner certainly doesn't seem to be doing business the way I would...

My only question would be, did the 'replacement' couple make it clear to the shop owner that they wanted to take your friend's place so that she wouldn't lose out? Has anybody explained to him how these people came to book the trip? If he thinks they just walked in and signed up, then he doesn't know there's any sort of potential moral obligation on his part. I'd want to be absolutely sure the shop owner clearly understands the situation before judging his actions.

On the other hand, if he does know and is just trying to make an extra $1000 the easy way, my guess would be that he's lost way more than that in future business, regardless of the legal position.

 

[T.C.]

why did they pay?

I can’t answer that. I don’t know if they didn’t know she had paid.

personally... I'd run a mile from that argument. You will either upset the Dive shop that if you are a long standing customer of & might damage your relationship with the club, or you risk dragging other members into it and you're seen as the bad guy within the club.

Is this your fight to be in?

I understand. But that’s simply not an option. I’ve willingly accepted to help her, and I don’t shrink from a conflict. I appreciate your opinion, but I’m not leaving a friend who has asked for my help to resolve the situation.

As for upsetting the dive shop; that’s his decision to be upset; if he wants to be, I will take my business elsewhere. There are other undisclosed factors, but suffice to say, I'm not tied to this shop.

My only question would be, did the 'replacement' couple make it clear to the shop owner that they wanted to take your friend's place so that she wouldn't lose out? Has anybody explained to him how these people came to book the trip? If he thinks they just walked in and signed up, then he doesn't know there's any sort of potential moral obligation on his part. I'd want to be absolutely sure the shop owner clearly understands the situation before judging his actions.

I intend to clarify this before I seek to propose a solution. I do believe that he knows this couple is a replacement, as the deadline for this trip closed quite a while back; and he stated that he had filled most of the resort, and had previously turned away other people. Before I seek a solution, I intend to fully hear his view (if he will tell it); as it has been my experience in these negotiations (I've done this before in much more challenging conditions) that there is always three points of view- one side, the other side, and the facts.

 

[bracko]

at best it's a bit of a miscommunication and can be sorted with a refund to the couple.


I'd play it dumb upfront and find out why the shop didn't do a name change on the booking. there may be a very logical reason why a name change wasn't possible (although I can't think of why as most airlines, hotels will do it at a fee) and go through the steps that each party has taken to get to where you are.

although, it does sound like it's going to get messy. If you're keen for the fight and don't mind spending your hard earned at another shop/club then go for it.

like you said... it's probably going to be extremely unclear as to what actually happened and why.


good luck.

 

[DivemasterDennis]

One too many people have paid, depending upon the contract for the trip. If there was a refund deadline, or terms of refund if cancelled for reasons that apply, then your frind is due a refund if she met those creiteria. If the trip contract stated that subscriptions could not be transferred, then you friend is just out the money. The written contract will govern. Now, ethically, someone is due $1000, and I believe it is your friend. You as an out side party, however, should not intervene without reading all paperwork everyone signed so you know where the legal rights and liabilities are.
DivemasterDennis

 

[TSandM]

Sounds like the simple solution is to refund the money to the injured diver. Refunding money to the couple and then having them pay the injured diver just makes it more complicated and harder to track what's gotten done and by whom.

If the shop owner has turned away other divers, it shouldn't be at all unclear that these people were replacements. If not, it gets murkier, especially if the couple did not specifically state that they were purchasing the injured diver's spot. To me, it's not attractive behavior on the part of the shop owner to keep everybody's money, but I certainly know shop owners who would do it, and I doubt the injured diver has any legal recourse in this case.

 

[DougK]

Have the injured diver call the shop owner directly and say: "I found you replacements for my spot on the trip, what is the status of my refund? If there is any hesitation on the part of the owner always ask: "what do you intend to do about a refund to me?"

If he pulls the "you missed the deadline crap," the next call need to be to the credit card company do cancel the charges/decline. For me 1000 would be enough to take the shop to small claims court.

Please let us know how this works out.

 

[doctormike]

Obviously, there must be some sort of contract, so the actual legal answer could be different from what I am going to say.

If the shop owner keeps your friends money, that is COMPLETELY unethical, although possibly legal. If my dive club was working with a shop that pulled something like that, not only would every member know about it but I would let people know about it here as well, and name the shop.

My club runs trips all the time, so I know how this works. Your friend found a replacement. The shop wouldn't be out anything if they went instead of her, but they seem to be taking the opportunity to make a quick buck. What possible grounds do they have for charging the new couple? The new couple could have paid your friend directly, although I don't know if the shop would have honored the name change (why not?).

If I were her, and it became clear that she wasn't getting the money back, I would tell the shop owner that she now decided that she could go after all. Hey, it's too late to cancel, so that is still her room and spot on the boat, according to the contract. Better it be empty than that this guy make an extra $1000 off her misfortune. Then, she and her friends can all go on a nice dive trip together once she is better...

BTW, you can't transfer airline tickets, but I'm assuming that the shop isn't involved with those.

 

[T.C.]

Thank you all. I am still interested in hearing opinions.

To clarify a few points; DiveMasterDennis, There is no trip contract on paper, just a verbal contract. I know; because I'm on the same trip. DougK, all the trips the owner books are done with cash or checks. He says this is because the trips are a different LLC from the shop, and also talks about the card surcharge....but I'm wondering if it may be due to what you've mentioned. No airline tickets were bought yet.

Again, thank you all. If anyone is a shop owner, I would appreciate knowing your opinions. Anyone can feel free to PM me if they would like that better. Once this is resolved, good, bad or ugly, I will post the resolution here.