New Zeagle Bail-out System

[divad]

My point is this: buddy awareness and gas planning will make you a better diver, you'll need less gear in the water (e.g. a pony) and you'll be a safer diver. If you are an aware buddy, why would you need a pony? Yes, I've lost my buddy diving Texas's murkey lakes once or twice but the total time thoughout my diving career I've been out of contact with my buddy (excluding intentional solo dives) has probabaly been less that 10 mins. What were the chances I or my buddy would have had a catastrophic air loss during those 10 mins considering I've not had one in hundreds of hours of bottomr time?

With a single tank, proper gas management will save you from everything but a first stage failure, a tank neck o-ring and a burst disk. Those 3 failure modes are covered by your aware buddy. Why have a pony?

For when you are not confident in your pick-up buddy. I don't always take it, depending on my assessment of the buddy. I had tank neck o-ring extrude and start leaking @ 1o5' and my "aware" pick-up" buddies did not have it covered even when I pointed to the valve. I really couldn't tell if it was an o-ring or a motor boat until I looked at my spg so as they blythely dissappeared around the corner, me and my pony got back to the anchor line and just hung out on the line at 50' then 20' and10' 'til everyone was ready to surface. I never had to use the pony, but it was nice to have . I basically agree with you though. Maybe they assumed that because I was carrying a pony that I was doing a solo dive and was only being an ostensible buddy? Oh yeah, I only put air in the pony.

 

[Packhorse]

Why have a pony?

Not everyone always has a buddy.
I do a few solo dives and I wouldn't be without my Pony.
When out bugging my usual buddy only see each other at the start and end of the dive.
If Im deep diving my pony gives me a bit more security.
The only times I have got back to the boat with less than 35bar in my main tank is when I used it all up looking for lost geat in 5m of water. So I dont use my pony as a crutch for poor gas managment. Just like I dont use an airbag in my car for poor driving skills. I have never used my airbag but im sure glad its there. Same with my pony.
As for the statment about using doubles instead, Im just not interested in the extra weight, cost, training, equipment and hassle.
This is how I dive and it may not be for everyone but it works for me and thats the main thing. Each to thier own.

 

[Chad Carney]

Well said Packhorse.

I know very few divers that only dive to light recreational depths that do wear a pony tank.

By comparison I know many extremely competent, thoroughly trained divers that do use pony tanks. They have thousands of ocean dives, and many hundreds beyond recreational depths.

Only a few of us ever dive doubles, and then only on a handful of dives per year.

The compact easy to reach bail-out system Zeagle has developed is designed to provide an extra level of safety breathing gas with almost no bulk or clutter.

Chad

 

[joetex0777]

Chad,

Do you know what the MSRP and availability is for this set-up 750-6206Z? Also, is it possible to get the hose in yellow?


Thanks,

Joe

 

[Chad Carney]

Chad,

Do you know what the MSRP and availability is for this set-up 750-6206Z? Also, is it possible to get the hose in yellow?


Thanks,

Joe

Joe,

Our price list is not complete yet, but the 750-6206 is in it at $430 MSRP. Dealers commonly price items closer to MAP which would be the upper $300s. I think the Z indicates the zip on model which should be about the same, but will require the zip mount adapters if yu do not have a LTD BC. They are not in my price list but a WAG would be about $35 a pair.

PM Scott/Zeagle, he has access to the computer for pricing.

Chad

 

[Chad Carney]

I have yet to go on a dive where I could test the 6 cu ft cylinder bailout system safely from a depth on ascent. To do so would wisely require not diving afterwards.

However I did make two pool tests that have some interesting information.

1. I played around with my camera gear at rest and completely burned 3000 psi. It lasted 13 minutes at 6 ft, while very relaxed. (This shows very little unless maybe you want to know how long you could use such a bottle to inspect your hull or such other light use.)

2. While simulating the speed I would most likely ascend if the $h!t hit the fan at depth, I swam 769 ft in 4.8 minutes, with no wall push offs, on another 3000 psi at an average depth of 4 ft or 1.1 ATM. I measured the rate I swam to be 2.66 ft/sec, which was light breathing for two laps and moderate for the rest. The speed was chosen as what felt like a compromise of relative quickness and burning the least energy, similar to a freediving ascent.

Doing a little math, such as 4 times the pressure which would be a depth of 115 ft, and a reduction to .25 of the distance and time, I could swim laterally at that depth for 192 ft. (More actually because the turns slowed me down.)

And how would I make out on a vertical swim, a little slower, while ascending from 220 ft, with the assist of expanding buoyancy from a BC, wetsuit etc.??? I don't know, but I find it incouraging knowing I could probably easily make it to 30 ft where I could use my 30 cu ft deco bottle from there to the surface for as long as it would last!

Chad

PS Spearfishing Magazine has a cool pony bottle calculator at the bottom of www.spearfishingmagazine.com that seems to be amazingly accurate. The direct link: http://thedesignshoppe.com/SPEAR/pony air use.xls

 

[joetex0777]

Thanks for all of the info and for doing the tests. I was asking about the "Z" model because I have the Ranger LTD.


Joe

 

[Nemrod]

I like your idea, 6 cf is enough for standard sport divers in OW, your system is like Spare Air with all of the negatives removed. The real world is not DIR and all divers are not on doubles and into deco.

For decades divers have made 60 ft min ascents, it is on the original NAVY Tables. Six cf is better than nothing and should get a non deco diver to the surface. OPVs, hmmmmm, weird. Those single hose jobs are gonna kill you guys, so unreliable.

N

 

[Sharky1948]

I have yet to go on a dive where I could test the 6 cu ft cylinder bailout system safely from a depth on ascent. To do so would wisely require not diving afterwards.

However I did make two pool tests that have some interesting information.

1. I played around with my camera gear at rest and completely burned 3000 psi. It lasted 13 minutes at 6 ft, while very relaxed. (This shows very little unless maybe you want to know how long you could use such a bottle to inspect your hull or such other light use.)

2. While simulating the speed I would most likely ascend if the $h!t hit the fan at depth, I swam 769 ft in 4.8 minutes, with no wall push offs, on another 3000 psi at an average depth of 4 ft or 1.1 ATM. I measured the rate I swam to be 2.66 ft/sec, which was light breathing for two laps and moderate for the rest. The speed was chosen as what felt like a compromise of relative quickness and burning the least energy, similar to a freediving ascent.

Doing a little math, such as 4 times the pressure which would be a depth of 115 ft, and a reduction to .25 of the distance and time, I could swim laterally at that depth for 192 ft. (More actually because the turns slowed me down.)

And how would I make out on a vertical swim, a little slower, while ascending from 220 ft, with the assist of expanding buoyancy from a BC, wetsuit etc.??? I don't know, but I find it incouraging knowing I could probably easily make it to 30 ft where I could use my 30 cu ft deco bottle from there to the surface for as long as it would last!

EDITED:

Seems like an easier way to think about it is in terms of RMV (SAC). Let's assume someone will be a "bit nervous" and have an RMV on 1cuft/min. Also, assume an ascent rate of 60 fpm. If I'm coming up from 132 feet, the average pressure is 3.0 ATA. Therefor the gas consumption rate would be 2.5 cu ft./min. At 60 fpm ascent, it would take 2.2 minutes to ascend or 2.2 minutes X 3 cfpm = 6.6 cu ft. So, in theory at least, 6 cu ft. should be almost sufficient for an emergency ascent from recreational depths, but would require an ESA from a relatively shallow depth.

 

[Adobo]

I dunno what DIR has to do with it (nor do I really know what DIR means) but I hate the idea. If you are in an OOG scenario, things are all "flowered" up and relying on 6 cu ft. as your emergency plan sounds incredibly stupid to me. PADI 101 says have a buddy. Your buddy is your emergency plan. He should have enough gas to donate to you and get both of you to the surface in a slow/controlled fashion. Having a solution like this offered to those who don't know better might encourage a change from a good emergency procedure to one that may or may not be sufficient. (Are there instructions that come with this thing that tell a diver that the so called bailout is useful at certain depths but not at others? Ex. is it useful at 120 ft if I should have an OOG emergency? Is it useful if normal SAC rate is over 1 cu ft/min? )

I love Zeagle as a company. The regs are top notch. If I was choosing a back inflate BC, it would be a Zeagle. I would think they could come up with a better way to generate more revenue.