Newbie Question: 1-Week Crash Courses?

[jonnythan]

Walter once bubbled...
"Peter may be correct with his statement that many divers go through very cursory certification courses and do not have 'problems'.

This could be because the crash training was adequate. Another explanation, however, is that those students have not yet had enough experience diving to encounter a situation which requires more training than they have received."

Another explanation is that many divers use the DM as a baby sitter. DM's save thousands of inadequately trained divers every year. I lost count of my rescues years ago, most were of divers who would not have needed to be rescued if they'd had adequate training.

Is the problem really that bad? I got trained here in upstate NY and dive fairly exclusively with people who took the same class I did (6 hour class every Sunday for six weeks), and after OW we've never done any supervised dives (besides our AOW).

I've never dived with a DM, and I don't think I've dived with anyone who has gone through a cursory class. We all have a pretty good appreciation for the dangers of the sport, as we tend to be into other sports (whitewater kayaking, vertical caving, etc) that require respect, so I honestly have no idea what it's like in, say, resort courses and liveaboards in Cozumel or wherever. I keep hearing everyone here talk about how horrible instruction is, but my class was more or less OK. It wasn't Mike F's class, but I feel it adequately taught us how to keep ourselves alive up here. I mean.. it can't be, can it?

 

[Vixyswillie]

I appreciate the responses to my questions. Thanks to all for helping me sort this out.

First, let me stress that I absolutely want to learn to dive the right way. If 6 weeks is what I really ought to devote, then 6 weeks is what I'll give.

Doc Intrepid once bubbled...
...diving is intolerant of error or oversight...

I don't know Jack about diving, but I can fully appreciate this comment, Doc. Frankly, I'm very frustrated that there aren't clearer, more inflexible standards governing all beginning diving courses. We don't provide "crash courses" in learning how to fly a plane (no pun intended). You have to pass the necessary tests, log the necessary hours, and do the necessary solos before you'll ever be given a license - right? Why on earth do we make exceptions and shortcuts for diving, for cripes sake?! Aren't those safeguards every bit as important?

One of our physicians at work (who is a diver) told me about the 1-week certification option. Perhaps that was a bad suggestion - and perhaps it was a bad idea for me to start thinking about learning that way. Given that concession, I'll back up a few steps and pose my questions to all of you:

I'd like to learn how to dive. I want to learn how to do it the right way - safely and intelligently. I'm an active 45 year old with no negative health history. I'd like to think of myself as a smart, sensible guy. I live in SE Wisconsin. I work full time during the day, M-F - and I have to live within my budget, as much as I hate to have to admit it. So... given all of that... how should I go about learning how to dive? What do I look for in a good certification program? How do I recognize a bad one? Is one particular association's endorsement (e.g., PADI, SSI, etc.) more important than another when picking a LDS and its certification programs ? If so, which one(s)?

Thanks for your time and assistance. I really appreciate it.

 

[jonnythan]

Vixyswillie once bubbled...
I appreciate the responses to my questions. Thanks to all for helping me sort this out.

First, let me stress that I absolutely want to learn to dive the right way. If 6 weeks is what I really ought to devote, then 6 weeks is what I'll give.



I don't know Jack about diving, but I can fully appreciate this comment, Doc. Frankly, I'm very frustrated that there aren't clearer, more inflexible standards governing all beginning diving courses. We don't provide "crash courses" in learning how to fly a plane (no pun intended). You have to pass the necessary tests, log the necessary hours, and do the necessary solos before you'll ever be given a license - right? Why on earth do we make exceptions and shortcuts for diving, for cripes sake?! Aren't those safeguards every bit as important?

Maybe it's because when you mess up and kill yourself diving, you don't take out a trailer park, a crowded terminal, or a jumbo jet full of passengers.

Seriously, though, it's awesome to hear a newbie expressing their desire to learn "the right way" and not take any shortcuts. If I knew then.....

Well, if I did I might have taken MikeFerrara's class. Reading about the way he teaches OW is amazing. This guy is great.

So anyway, I definitely concur with Walter. Don't cram the class, take it over a significant period of time. Six weeks once a week is nice, but not necessary. Maybe 3 weekends of Saturday/Sunday classes or something. Look around, and all the luck in the world to you.

 

[cold kiwi]

my original o/w cert was through SSI and it was over 2 weekends
i came out of it not feeling to confident about the open water but my instructor was fantastic 1 year later im back with dive master

so i think its diferent for each person depends on the facility and the instructor ....makes a big difference =D good luck

 

[Walter]

"Is the problem really that bad?"

Yes. It is really that bad. While I lost count of my rescues, I do remember my record for one day - 12. On the bright side, 11 of those were not PADI Instructors.

 

[Lead_carrier]

Just read, study, know the material as best you can and write down any questions you have. Just make sure you can do the full course for no extra cost if YOU do not feel the weekend course taught you enough.

Am I a fan of the weekend course? No, but I do teach on occasionally and have been very surprised at the quality of students that I've had. Most are more ready than the ones I have in my regular 4 week class. We make the class 2 1/2 days with the understanding right up front, getting into the class is no guarantee of getting through. Your weekend quickie my get gently nudged toward weeknight longie.

 

[aquaviper]

Welcome to scubaboard and greetings from another Waukesha diver.

I would recommend against any crash course. If diving is something you want to do, take your time and learn as much as you can over as much time as an instructor will give you.

The people with the 2-weekend course are very good and I would recommend them to you. I have taken classes with them and have bought equipment from them.

I would, however, point you towards the shop in here town. He teaches the course over a 5-week period. The structure is classroom work on Thursday and pool sessions on Friday. Mrs. aquaviper and I certified here and we didn't just learn to dive. We became divers.

At any rate, when you get your c-card, give me a shout and we'll hit the lakes. Then we can talk about diving over a ponza rotta at the Grotto.

See ya around town.

 

[jasondbaker]

Vixyswillie, you might get some good training recommendations from other local divers at wiscuba.com -- the online forum for Wisconsin divers.

Personally I would recommend doing the pool and classroom work locally and then doing the certification dives in the ocean. That way you you can actually do some real diving for a week at a great dive location. I can't imagine being stuck in a classroom or pool -- watching those boats going out carrying smiling divers.

 

[neil]

Through a local shop, I have actually attempted to teach a few of those 2-weekend courses and I have to tell you, it was a nightmare for me. I won't try it again. I had results I could be proud of with only two people: bright, came prepared, physically fit, "water babies", and both had done resort courses. Even so, it was way too hectic. It's just too much to cram into that time period: for the student AND the instructor.
Neil

 

[Vixyswillie]

Sorry for the brief hiatus - I got so many PMs and emails from all of you, I could scarcely keep up!

First of all - my thanks again to those who have taken the time to respond to my inquiries. I'm indebted to you for your thoughtful comments and know I'll be a better diver for it.

jonnythan
Thanks for the compliment. Just trying my best not to be an idiot. <lol> I've given up on cramming the class over 2 weekends - it's just a stupid idea. Not enough class time, pool time OR dive time, IMO. I've gone all this time NOT diving, so there's certainly no reason to rush into it that way now. Having said that, I'm not convinced that taking one class a week for 5 or 6 weeks is the way to go, either. Rick Murchison's 1-week course is an intensive, "live and breathe scuba" approach that's really appealing to me right now.

cold kiwi - my original o/w cert was through SSI and it was over 2 weekends i came out of it not feeling to confident about the open water.
That would be my fear, as well. I just don't think I'd feel the confidence that I want to have when I make the plunge into that first OW experience. I want the confidence that comes with KNOWING that my training has been excellent. I want to have fun (and I know that I will), but I also want to be sensible and well-prepared.

Walter - Yes. It is really that bad. While I lost count of my rescues, I do remember my record for one day - 12.
Cripes - that is scary!! But it's also not surprising to hear there are so many mishaps that stem from that kind of preparation.

Lead_carrier - Just read, study, know the material as best you can and write down any questions you have. Just make sure you can do the full course for no extra cost if YOU do not feel the weekend course taught you enough.
I guess that's what I'm trying to avoid, here. I'd like to be intelligent about this right out of the gate and choose something that I feel is going to give me the best preparation. As I've already said, I don't care if it takes me a little longer or costs me a little more. But I'd like to do it ONCE, and then get diving!

aquaviper
Well - how cool is that?! A fellow Waukesha diver way out here in cyberspace! <lol> Glad you agree that the abbreviated crash course isn't the way to go. What are your thoughts about a program like Rick's Murchison's - a sort of week-long "immersion?" <no pun intended> The shop here in Waukesha was my next stop. Thanks to the suggestion of folks here, I have a whole slurry of questions to ask them. Hope to get there tomorrow after work. I'm admittedly not as excited about spreading this out over 5 weeks, though. And I'll DEFINITELY let you know when the c-card cometh! I am SO up for a dive in the water, followed by a dive into the ponza rotta!

jasondbaker - I can't imagine being stuck in a classroom or pool -- watching those boats going out carrying smiling divers.
LOL - yeah, that's PAINFUL!! Yet another attraction to Rick's program. I'd do all of my OW dives in Vortex Springs and off the coast of Panama City! And BTW... thanks for the link. I'll check 'em out for sure.

neil - Through a local shop, I have actually attempted to teach a few of those 2-weekend courses and I have to tell you, it was a nightmare for me. I won't try it again... it was way too hectic. It's just too much to cram into that time period: for the student AND the instructor.
Glad to hear an evaluation on that kind of program from the instructor point of view. Thank you VERY much for adding that. I'm flushing that idea for sure.

You folks are the best - thanks a million for all the replies!!