Nikon D70

[kevreid]

Here is a link to pictures taken with many of the lenses in question. Good resource for setup also.
http://splashdowndivers.com/photo_gallery/underwater_photography/sample_gallery.htm

 

[Warren_L]

I'm contemplating going D70 as well (from an Oly C5050). I've been trying to spec out the components I'm going to need, and so far this is what I've come up with. Is there anything else that I need or perhaps need to be changed in this list?

Nikon D70
Nikkor 18mm-70mm f/3.5-4.5G IF-ED Zoom
Ikelite D70 housing (6807)
Ikelite Dome Port (5503.55)
Ikelite Substrobe DS-125

 

[kdietz]

The Ike/Aquatica 8" dome will not work with the 10.5mm because of vignetting....the dome can't get close enough to prevent clipping....it would work on an Aquatica housing, but when it's converted to work on an Ikelite housing it sticks out too far....a shame, but the 10.5mm works well with the Ike recommended dome

 

[ssra30]

I'm contemplating going D70 as well (from an Oly C5050). I've been trying to spec out the components I'm going to need, and so far this is what I've come up with. Is there anything else that I need or perhaps need to be changed in this list?

Nikon D70
Nikkor 18mm-70mm f/3.5-4.5G IF-ED Zoom
Ikelite D70 housing (6807)
Ikelite Dome Port (5503.55)
Ikelite Substrobe DS-125

Using the kit lens is an ok starting point as you will certainly get better quality picture and no shutter lag in comparison to C5050 but you actually will lose some versatility of C5050. While the 18-70mm give you equavalent to 27-105mm range similar to C5050, it does not focus very close so basically you will lose the macro mode ability of the C5050. It is ok for some reef scene and fish portrait type picture.
When you get to dSLR, certainly be prepare to get additional lenses especially at wide angle and macro end. I would consider adding 15mm sigma lens (or 12-24mm or 10.5mm if you can afford those) and one macro lens either 60mm or 105mm (I personally prefer 105mm) and appropriate ports.

 

[RonFrank]

First off TTL describes EVERY metering system in DSLR's. Basically an 18% grey reflective meter, with a heck of a lot more going on. But after all is said and done, it is easily fooled.

So I think we are really discussing TTL using flash. Here is the difference between iTTL, and dTTL (you asked) :11:

D-TTL uses a five-element flash sensor and looks at the shutter curtain for reflections. One problem is that it sees outside the 1.5x area on the DSLRs. D-TTL pre-flash is a sequenced series of 18 pulses from the flash. Only one flash can be used if you're in a D-TTL mode.

I-TTL uses the 1005-element color matrix meter in the viewfinder and has much better ability to distinguish what's happening in specific area of the frame. I-TTL pre-flash has been extended to allow communication between flashes and camera so that multiple flash (up to 10), groups of flash (up to 3 groups of 3 flashes), and wireless exposure control of flashes is all possible.

What does this all mean? iTTL has a LOT of extended capabilities, and also is fooled less often due to a much more comprehensive pre-flash sequence, and much better and well defined metering area. It allows TTL BETWEEN flashes, and better yet, one can control flash ratio's AND it's wireless.... Really cool STUFF!!

Does it work better UW. I'm not certain anyone can answer unless they are using a flash housing as Ikelite is about to release the first UW iTTL flash. Will those flashes support the full iTTL implementation with wireless multiple flash capabilities, and the master to slave control that is available on the Nikon SB800?? God only knows, or maybe Ikelite.

I can tell you iTTL with even one flash works better on land vs. dTTL in SOME situations. One thing to keep in mind is that as advanced as these things get, if you use manual mode, and have the flash exposure dialed in based on distance, it is repeatable, and right on. This will apply UW as well as on the surface assuming constant lighting, constant subject distance, and constant water clarity.

Where dedicated TTL with a flash really helps is when everything is changing, subject distance, lighting, and when it works, it works damn well, and it DOES work for the majority of subjects.

However the BEST photographer is one who uses their skill and mind, and is NOT totally dependent upon technololgy, and pushing a button to get an exposure. Let's face it, if you are in a situation where iTTL is NOT working, or even the Camera exposure meter (which as these TTL meters are based on the same technology, they are fooled by similar subjects), you either loose the shot, or rely on your knowledge and understanding on how to shoot manual.

IMO anyone who is shooting a multiflash setup UW BETTER take the time to become a photographer. If you are spending 5K and do not have time to even learn how to use the equipment, well IMO THAT is VERY pathetic!!!!

 

[f3nikon]

Thanks for the education but this article just confirms all the negatives I have on TTL. Personally, I think the author didn't have much of a clue on what he was talking about.

http://www.wetpixel.com/i.php/full/inon-d-2000-s-ttl-strobe

Here are some of the reasons why:

"Reflective Subjects
To simulate blue water with a reflective subject, I used a regulator on my crushed velvet backdrop. Again, the strobe is set at S-TTL Low and the strobe to subject distance is roughly one foot. The results are presented below:"

Just because the crushed velvet is blue in color, still does not come close to simulating BLUE WATER! The VELVET reflects back the light, the BLUE WATER does NOT! When a TTL strobe is fired at a wide blue water NO light is reflected back to the camera's TTL sensor, which is looking for the light to bounce back from something, anything!

Since no light is bounced back, the camera does NOT tell the strobe to stop, the strobe just keeps pumping out the light until the caps. in the strobes are fully DUMPED!

Oh, and the fish or reefscape that was the real target for the strobe, which was not in the CENTER of the frame, where the camera's TTL sensor is monitoring for the reflected light. It just went to the OVER EXPOSED Round File!

Then it just went all down hill on this comment:

"I'm not sure exactly what happened, but the strobe is certainly not throwing as much flash into the second picture. I reset the strobe from S-TTL Low to S-TTL as recommend by the instruction manual, and tried again:"

The first pictures of the regs. at f3.2 are overexposed, the black rubber knob is now a light grey! The reg. at f8.0 is under exposed! The correct aperture is somewhere around f5.6! Hey, I thought TTL was "Set It And Forget It"?

Actually the TTL strobe/camera combo is working as it should, the camera on TTL mode is programed to make everything 18% GREY! White sand and snow it will turn GREY, a black bear or blackbird, to the camera, it should be GREY! The shiney reg. and the black knob should be GREY??? Sometimes? Maybe?

Then there are the burned out, washed out pictures of the cleaner and scorpion fish that are suppose to be good TTL shots? Could it be the he ran out of aperture? The camera was limited to only f8.0 he needed f11 or f16 to make that work. Or he was shooting so close that the camera could not turn off the TTL strobe fast enough to prevent overexposure!

I think I'll pass on TTL....... and stick with TTM (Through The Mind) for now.

Dive Safe

 

[f3nikon]

The Ike/Aquatica 8" dome will not work with the 10.5mm because of vignetting....the dome can't get close enough to prevent clipping....it would work on an Aquatica housing, but when it's converted to work on an Ikelite housing it sticks out too far....a shame, but the 10.5mm works well with the Ike recommended dome

Thanks, you just save me some grief.

 

[RonFrank]

Thanks for the education but this article just confirms all the negatives I have on TTL. Personally, I think the author didn't have much of a clue on what he was talking about.

http://www.wetpixel.com/i.php/full/inon-d-2000-s-ttl-strobe

First off, iTTL is VERY awesome, I just don't feel that one should be blind in using technology. iTTL/dTTL works, and VERY well for many subjects, so don't assume TTL is bad, it's just another tool in the box. The meters we use to judge exposure is an example of a reflective TTL meter.

Here are some of the reasons why:

The VELVET reflects back the light, the BLUE WATER does NOT! When a TTL strobe is fired at a wide blue water NO light is reflected back to the camera's TTL sensor, which is looking for the light to bounce back from something, anything!

There seems to be a lack of understand of how reflective meters work in general, and TTL flash meters as well. First one does NOT want the water to reflect the light as it's NOT the subject.

So using TTL the flash will fire until camera system *thinks* that the subject is exposed properly based on the aperture. if the subject is more reflective (like a mirror) than the camera meter may be fooled into shutter down the flash prematurely. The link you posted is using S-TTL, and I have no idea exactly how that works. However with iTTL the meter is rather sophisticated, and the camera attempts to determine where the subject is in the frame, and how far the subject is from the focal plane. it does this using the 3D matrix metering which is highly complicated, but uses the focus distance and other factors to determine where in the fame the subject is, and also what percentage of the fame the subject occupies.

Since no light is bounced back, the camera does NOT tell the strobe to stop, the strobe just keeps pumping out the light until the caps. in the strobes are fully DUMPED!

Well, that is only true of you have no subject.

As the light hits the subject it is measured. Once the meter detects the correct amount of light based on the aperture it will shut down the flash.

Oh, and the fish or reefscape that was the real target for the strobe, which was not in the CENTER of the frame, where the camera's TTL sensor is monitoring for the reflected light. It just went to the OVER EXPOSED Round File!

This of course depends upon the type of TTL that is used in camera, but MOST DLSR's are a LOT more complex than what you are describing. Nikon introduced 3D matrix metering in the 80's on the 8080 and F4 camera's, so very good flash TTL is nothing new.

Then it just went all down hill on this comment:

"I'm not sure exactly what happened, but the strobe is certainly not throwing as much flash into the second picture. I reset the strobe from S-TTL Low to S-TTL as recommend by the instruction manual, and tried again:"

The first pictures of the regs. at f3.2 are overexposed, the black rubber knob is now a light grey! The reg. at f8.0 is under exposed! The correct aperture is somewhere around f5.6! Hey, I thought TTL was "Set It And Forget It"?

A couple of the examples used in the article posted are flawed, and I can tell youi exactly what went wrong. Flashes are NOT infinately adjustable, and most have a range of six or so stops. Flash TTL will NOT change the way a flash works, and obviously in the example provided, this flash was too close to the subject, and producing too much light even at it's lowest setting.

Actually the TTL strobe/camera combo is working as it should, the camera on TTL mode is programed to make everything 18% GREY! White sand and snow it will turn GREY, a black bear or blackbird, to the camera, it should be GREY! The shiney reg. and the black knob should be GREY??? Sometimes? Maybe?

No. The 18% grey average assumes that if you take an average scene and dump all the colors into a bucket and mixed the results would be grey. However todays camera's have a heck of a lot more going on than the 18% grey meter even if they are based on that technology. In any event learning how a meter behaves is part of the process of becoming a good photographer, and if the snow is coming out grey, then that's an error on the photographers part.

Then there are the burned out, washed out pictures of the cleaner and scorpion fish that are suppose to be good TTL shots? Could it be the he ran out of aperture? The camera was limited to only f8.0 he needed f11 or f16 to make that work. Or he was shooting so close that the camera could not turn off the TTL strobe fast enough to prevent overexposure!

I think I'll pass on TTL....... and stick with TTM (Through The Mind) for now.

Dive Safe

Flash TTL is just a tool. It's not bad. I however use TTL often when shooting, and it can be a very valuable tool.

The implementation of the Inon S-TTL is likely nothing close to the Nikon iTTL, or Canon E-TTL. While most PnS camera's do a series of four or less preflashes, Nikon dTTL does 18. That should tell you something right there.

As for what works best, well my bet is on iTTL if ikelite manages to do a good job of implementing it. I generally shoot in TTL flash mode, and use the exposure compensation on the flash to adjust when I need to change the flash exposure.

Another favorite way I shoot is to set the flash exposure compensation to -2 stops in TTL mode. This results in a VERY effective fill flash with the natrual light being the main, and the flash just pushing the shadows back a bit.

If you are shooting with an F3, you have rather missed the Nikon flash TTL developments. iTTL is a great tool, and people would be foolish to not take advantage of such a powerful tool.

Happy Shooting!

 

[gianster]

I just got my 60mm lens and topside is unbelievable. I am wondering if I should buy the 105mm also. I have not taken it underwater yet but I am pumped up to take it on Provo in July along with the 10.5 fisheye.

 

[f3nikon]

First off, iTTL is VERY awesome, I just don't feel that one should be blind in using technology. iTTL/dTTL works, and VERY well for many subjects, so don't assume TTL is bad, it's just another tool in the box. The meters we use to judge exposure is an example of a reflective TTL meter.

Actually after looking into the Inon strobes and manual, I come to find out that their strobes are NOT a true TTL at all!!! In fact not even a TTL system as the industry knows it!

Facts about TTL systems: The system must be closed looped, meaning that there must be a feedback path back to the controlling unit in order to control a device. It the case of a SLR camera there is a fast reponse light sensor just under the reflex mirror, pointing at a 45 degree angle at the film. The camera's hot shoe has at least 3 most times 4 pin input/ouputs, the strobe has the same pin outs.

When the camera and strobe is set to TTL mode the following events occurs:

1) When the shutter button is tripped the camera trips the shutter and at the same time closes the strobe sync pin to ground ( 2 pins).

2) The strobes fires and starts to light up the subject, light is reflected back towards the camera's lens.

3) The light enters the lens then strikes the film or CCD sensor, for digital.

4) At the same time the light is striking the film or CCD the fast reponse sensor is monitoring the light intensity bouncing off of the film or CCD.

5) The sensor feeds this data back to the camera's TTL control system, which then sends a signal ( pin #3) back to the strobe to shutoff the light.

The problem with the Inon strobe is that in does not use a 3 or 4 pin sync cord connected the camera's hot shoe. Inon uses a SINGLE pin OPTICAL cord! To fire the strobe ONLY! NO FEEDBACK Therefore NO TTL!

Here is a picture of an Inon strobe control dial, I was wondering why a TRUE TTL strobe would have settings for apertures and a darker and lighter positions on the dial?

Its because you are really shooting in MANUAL MODE! You set the aperture in the camera and set the same aperture on the strobe which has a factory preset strobe power made to properly expose the picture at ISO 100!

What Inon really has here is a varible power MANUAL strobe! Inon will have some serious explaining by labeling their strobes as S-TTL, Could it be that the "S" stands for SHAM - TTL?

Someone please tell me what is going on???