Nitrox tanks

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Easy Nitrox Diving, Scuba Diving International
pg. 39 If you only dive with EAN 40 or less, oxygen compatible gear, oxygen cleaning, fires, and explosioins are not things you need to be concerned with.

That was the one sentence I forgot about.

Thanks again and to Duckster3d for making me get my book out.
 
The part the author's forgot is that regardless of what you dive with - your tank may be exposed to 100% O2. SDI needs to revise that book.
 
NetDoc:
Adiabatic forces provide the heat. Hydrocarbons provide the fuel, and pure oxygen will make a LOT of things combust at far lower temperatures.

Carbon monoxide is odorless and without taste.

Apparently, common sense is not that common.
I will fess up that I have very little background in chemistry.

Why don't the carbon and oxygen form carbon dioxide? The heat is already there and there is plenty of oxygen at the scene.
 
rjack321:
The part the author's forgot is that regardless of what you dive with - your tank may be exposed to 100% O2. SDI needs to revise that book.

I have to agree, the SDI book is lacking, if this is all it had to say. I don't have a copy of the SDI nitrox book, but may have to check into getting a copy to better understand what they are trying to teach.

short answer... if the shop banks nitrox, then it's not a big issue. if the shop does pp blending then it is a big problem, because the tank and valve will be exposed to pure oxygen.


i really wish that all shops would do away with air, and all openwater classes would cover nitrox. there would be a lot less confusion. I've had shops tell me that if they didn't do the vip and cleaning they would not fill my tanks, even though they had all the stupid stickers.
 
Don Burke:
I will fess up that I have very little background in chemistry.

Why don't the carbon and oxygen form carbon dioxide? The heat is already there and there is plenty of oxygen at the scene.

Some probably will form CO2, but incomplete combustion is very common and that forms CO.

The single most common source of CO is a gas engine since the spark rarely ignites 100.00% of the fuel/air mix cleanly. There are "pockets" of excess fuel and that's where you get CO produced. So if the interior of a car engine isn't hot enough, you can imagine that the relatively low heat environment from tank filling (it should be as low as possible), is also quite cool from a combustion persepective.
 
rjack321:
Some probably will form CO2, but incomplete combustion is very common and that forms CO.

The single most common source of CO is a gas engine since the spark rarely ignites 100.00% of the fuel/air mix cleanly. There are "pockets" of excess fuel and that's where you get CO produced. So if the interior of a car engine isn't hot enough, you can imagine that the relatively low heat environment from tank filling (it should be as low as possible), is also quite cool from a combustion persepective.

Yes, but unlike the car engine, the scuba tank will have an overabundance of oxygen thus preventing the case of pockets of 'excess fuel'.

I am still wondering how, during a PP fill, with combustion and very high F02's, CO is produced. I can see where its produced during corosion events in a filled tank but not in combustion in an 02 rich sealed environment. (if the seal go's, then were into conflagration)

Mike
 
Who said CO was formed in the tank?

The more common source (other than exhaust) would be in the compressor - from incomplete combustion of oil in the high heat and high pressure environment. Heck there's more pressure in there than in a diesel engine.
 
All this talk about "adiabatic" is straight out of some diving textbook. Ditto the carbon monoxide stuff, ,mostly bull but with just enough truth to scare the bejeebus out of some divers. The textbooks' authors got it from gahd knows where, some general physics book or egghead at NASA. The idea that merely turning on HP gas and "slamming" the first stage, or that normal flow rates inside the tank will cause combustion is simply wrong. It is true that HP oxygen may cause some combustibles like heavy silicone, magnesium or titanium to ignite. However, all the usual conditions for flammability must be met; fuel, oxygen and local heating. Unless it has been lubed with silicone, a brass valve does not contain enough combustible to ignite. There may be some local heating of the valve but during PP filling the oxygen being pumped into the SCUBA tank is usually decanted, and cold, causing the valve internals to cool, not heat. A scuba tank does not reach flammability conditions of heat and fuel because of the large surface area, volume and lack of fuel. A few milligrams of compressor oil will simply oxidize and become very difficult to ignite. The conditions would not be met to produce CO. That is junk science and won't hunt. Moreover, should it ever occur, a flare inside a dirty tank, the byproducts of a flash burn would be detectable as soon as the diver checked his air. Byproducts would be soot and CO2. All this stuff would carry odors associated with common smoke. A hyperfilter is nice but not necessary for the conscientious. In this context it means that the compressor operator uses a filtration system with either commercial components or well designed DIY components. These include a condensator to remove most moisture and oil and a final filter which include dessicant, activated charcoal and a micronic disk or cylinder. When water, oil and particulates are suppressed, the air inside the tank will be "oxygen" clean enough to be safe without an expensive hyperfilter. Over time, some water and oil may accumulate but yearly cleanings will take care of that. If the hyperfilters live up to the claims, then inspections but not yearly cleanings should be the rule. However, in the real world, if the tank is being presented to a dive shop it would appear that the shop operator would have difficulty ascertaining who what and when occurred over the intervening year and would insist on cleaning before PP filling with oxygen. That is understandable.
 
pescador775:
All this talk about "adiabatic" is straight out of some diving textbook. Ditto the carbon monoxide stuff, ,mostly bull but with just enough truth to scare the bejeebus out of some divers. The textbooks' authors got it from gahd knows where, some general physics book or egghead at NASA. The idea that merely turning on HP gas and "slamming" the first stage, or that normal flow rates inside the tank will cause combustion is simply wrong. It is true that HP oxygen may cause some combustibles like heavy silicone, magnesium or titanium to ignite. However, all the usual conditions for flammability must be met; fuel, oxygen and local heating. Unless it has been lubed with silicone, a brass valve does not contain enough combustible to ignite. There may be some local heating of the valve but during PP filling the oxygen being pumped into the SCUBA tank is usually decanted, and cold, causing the valve internals to cool, not heat. A scuba tank does not reach flammability conditions of heat and fuel because of the large surface area, volume and lack of fuel. A few milligrams of compressor oil will simply oxidize and become very difficult to ignite. The conditions would not be met to produce CO. That is junk science and won't hunt. Moreover, should it ever occur, a flare inside a dirty tank, the byproducts of a flash burn would be detectable as soon as the diver checked his air. Byproducts would be soot and CO2. All this stuff would carry odors associated with common smoke. A hyperfilter is nice but not necessary for the conscientious. In this context it means that the compressor operator uses a filtration system with either commercial components or well designed DIY components. These include a condensator to remove most moisture and oil and a final filter which include dessicant, activated charcoal and a micronic disk or cylinder. When water, oil and particulates are suppressed, the air inside the tank will be "oxygen" clean enough to be safe without an expensive hyperfilter. Over time, some water and oil may accumulate but yearly cleanings will take care of that. If the hyperfilters live up to the claims, then inspections but not yearly cleanings should be the rule. However, in the real world, if the tank is being presented to a dive shop it would appear that the shop operator would have difficulty ascertaining who what and when occurred over the intervening year and would insist on cleaning before PP filling with oxygen. That is understandable.


AMEN
AMEN
AMEN
AMEN
SALUTE!!!!!!!!!

It is about time somebody stated the reality. Every one speaks of this O2 clean business as if ONE drop of gasoline can blow up an intire city!!

There has to be a standard. I am okay with that. It is just that filling with the PP method is not the "time bomb" it has escalated into
 

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