No visible up/down reference and being dizzy?

[Puffer Fish]

Well, how do you know you are neutral, if you don't know where you are or which way you are moving? For example, I get NO information from my ears when going up. I have to depend on gear and suit for that information. Sometimes I can't know if simply exhaling is enough to cause a descent. Although I'll admit that, during my lost line exercise in Intro, I sat on my rock and breathed in, and breathed out, and breathed IN, and breathed OUT, until I felt I had defined my y axis well enough to begin my search.

People who don't deal with this don't have much empathy for it, in my experience, and they have no advice on how to fix it.

Sadly, your comment is very true...It can become a very personal issue at times... nice insight and thanks for making these posts.

 

[rawls]

TSandM....

Apologies for not being more specific...I was assuming that Ladyvalea was a new diver and that is what I was basing my response on. I too have done descents without a reference. The last one was in the Cooper River near Charleston, SC. It was zero visibility with fast current, and very spooky, but a blast nevertheless. The ascent was via surface marker with spool. I just do not believe that these types of dives are ones new divers should be doing....

 

[Chris Hipp]

I get vertigo on just about every dive I do. I stop and stare at one thing until the feeling goes away. If I am doing an ascent or safety stop and I feel it I just stare at my gauge and make sure I am staying at my desired depth. After a while I got used to it and it is pretty easy for my to stop now.

 

[TSandM]

I just do not believe that these types of dives are ones new divers should be doing...

Well, new or not, you don't have a lot of other choices in Puget Sound!

 

[Fotoz4FX]

Unless you are in zero visibility or are using a fully contained rebreathing apparatus, you have reference. They are called bubbles and the smallest ones rise at about the rate of 30 feet per minute... key word being 'rise'.

If you are neutral, respiration will cause you to rise and fall so some degree based on your physical conditioning, lung capacity & respiratory rate (the faster you inhale/exhale the less time there is for the buoyancy to respond to the change in your neutrality).

Vertigo does happen but can be overcome if you find references (even a small particulate floating in front of you can be used as a reference point).

How you overcome this phenomena of diving is a personal goal and one I'm sure you can realize with a little time identifying your environment and what is actually in it.

I wish you the best.

 

[Fotoz4FX]

An interesting point about being neutral and dealing with vertigo too is that in currents often bubbles cannot be relied upon for a vertical reference point... they well may be following the current to a greater degree than the lateral aspect to horizontal. I prefer to use the larger bubbles (and you can feel them if you are in zero viz - note this all you psd's) as my reference to up. Divers who go into unfamiliar locations (especially rivers or areas of strong current with limited visibility) should first research the logistics of the dive, ask questions from divers in the area of interest and above all, train for the experience BEFORE having it.

I'm not a know-it-all but I have done a lot of diving... even as a psd (though I don't ever recall being given that title... I was called a dive rescue specialist, not a public safety diver at the time). I think my best education though was as an instructor. I think we learn more than our students simply by virtue of their questions which we need to answer as well as seeing issues they experience that we may not have had in our own training... it makes us better instructors and if we can solve the issues of the student, mentors to follow so always be aware that you are being watched and try always to do the right things.
Nuff said?

 

[rawls]

Well, new or not, you don't have a lot of other choices in Puget Sound!

Opinions aside...I am simply curious as to your viewpoint...Do you feel it is safe for a new diver to do these kind of dives in Puget Sound?

 

[wedivebc]

I found there was lots ot give me visual clues in murky water. I just had to adjust my focus to the little floaty things right in front of my eyes and it improved my stabilty in the water immensely

 

[Puffer Fish]

Opinions aside...I am simply curious as to your viewpoint...Do you feel it is safe for a new diver to do these kind of dives in Puget Sound?

I hope we get some of the local people to post on this... but having dove there...here is my take.

I do not believe that a resort course, clear, warm water certified diver should even think about diving there without a lot more practice and training. So I guess that would be a no.

However, if you learned to dive there, with all the special considerations one needs, had lots of practice.. then yes.

This is a very old arguement(yes, older than me) regarding training standards for OW and is it possible for every class to address the needs of every diving environment.

Regarding this thread... there are essentially two groups of vertigo.. the first are normal people where some visual event confuses the sensory input... which most people (but people vary), can learn ways to easily recover from

The second group has some different or damaged sensory system that does not work that way.

Because most people have had some of the first event, there is an assumption that they have the answer for everyone.

I wish that were true... a quick test..

Tip you head back (look straight up), close your eyes and with your arms outstretched.. touch your nose with your pointing finger on both hands. I fall over when I try that... every time. No practice, no learning will correct for not having one side of my inner ear gone.

Still, there are tricks learning to deal with the issue... but bubbles will not do it.

 

[TSandM]

Opinions aside...I am simply curious as to your viewpoint...Do you feel it is safe for a new diver to do these kind of dives in Puget Sound?

That's a loaded question.

The quick answer is what Puffer Fish wrote. People who certify here learn in our conditions, which are in fact quite stressful for new divers. If you passed your OW class, you should be able to jump off a boat, descend 40 feet to the bottom, conduct a dive, and ascend to the boat.

If you trained somewhere else, in better conditions, you are well served by doing your first Sound dives from shore, and with some kind of experienced companion.

Whether people who finish their OW classes ARE actually safe doing a descent, dive and ascent in our conditions is a question that goes to standards and teaching, and I am going to refrain from climbing on my soapbox here