Noob seeking advice on BCD
- Thread starter Ytsejam
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In today's dive, I came across an instructor (an ex-seal and my diving buddy's instructor) who was wearing the Effesub Boost Control, so I asked him if he would recommend it. His reply was a straightforward NO. He said I'd be better off with the Commando or better yet with the Scubapro T-black. This encounter plus the posts in this thread and elsewhere in the forum have made me realize that I should broaden my horizons by diving different BCDs, even a BP/W (assuming I can get my hands on one AND that they're suitable for single tank rec dives), before making the actual purchase.
Thanks again to ALL posters for their input.
--> OldNSalty: The emergency Air Cylinder is roughly 0.14 cu ft. It's connected to the bladder to provide emergency inflation but can also be used for breathing, as the Commando's inflator doubles as a second second stage (see photo). In UK forums I read vastly contrasting opinions regarding its usefulness.
Thanks again to ALL posters for their input.
--> OldNSalty: The emergency Air Cylinder is roughly 0.14 cu ft. It's connected to the bladder to provide emergency inflation but can also be used for breathing, as the Commando's inflator doubles as a second second stage (see photo). In UK forums I read vastly contrasting opinions regarding its usefulness.
Since my last post in this thread I registered for a UTD Essentials course, starting on the 16th of October. The equipment, which is DIR, will be provided by the instructor. Talking to him about choosing a BC type, I was not surprised to hear that - like most people here - he says that a BP/wing rig is the way forward. Soon I will try and I'll know. My *new* question is:
My UTD instructor elaborated on the advantages of a Halcyon wing (full circle) as opposed to the horseshoe design favored by other manufacturers. His point was that dumping air is easier in a Halcyon-type wing, whereas a horseshoe wing might trap air in the points of the horseshoe in certain angles. Is this a valid point? It makes sense in theory, but I'd like to know what BP/W owners think. Btw, I will be diving only Halcyon BCs during the Essentials, so chances are that I will have to buy a BC without being first able to try a BP/W with a horseshoe type of wing.
My UTD instructor elaborated on the advantages of a Halcyon wing (full circle) as opposed to the horseshoe design favored by other manufacturers. His point was that dumping air is easier in a Halcyon-type wing, whereas a horseshoe wing might trap air in the points of the horseshoe in certain angles. Is this a valid point? It makes sense in theory, but I'd like to know what BP/W owners think. Btw, I will be diving only Halcyon BCs during the Essentials, so chances are that I will have to buy a BC without being first able to try a BP/W with a horseshoe type of wing.
rstofer
Contributor
Halcyon seems to have a few 'recalls' and I think that bothers me - a lot. See the 'sticky' at the top of the forum plus you can get more info on other recalls at their web site. Not a good thing...
Unless there are 2 rump dumps, you can always roll to a position from which it is difficult to vent the wing. This isn't unique to any particular type of wing, it's based on the idea that the bubble tends to rise. In a heads up position, the rump dump may not work at all if there is very little air in the wing. I think in any BC, there is a certain amount of effort required to manage the bubble.
In one of the other threads we have been discussing the Deep Sea Supply LCD-30 wing, which is a horseshoe, and comparing it to the OxyCheq Mach V, which is a torus. There are a lot of divers using the LCD-30 (including me) and they ALL like it a lot. Then again, the Mach V users like their wing - a lot! I don't think there is much substance to the debate re: torus vs horseshoe.
The neat thing about the BP/W is that you get to choose. If you want a torus wing, no problem! They're all over the place. There are 9 single tank wings available from Deep Sea Supply https://www.deepseasupply.com/index.php?category=wings Some are horseshoe and some are torus.
Some wings, like the DSS, have the top outlet at the center of the wing. Others have it over on the left. It could be argued that the center outlet design will be easier to vent.
When you look at the various outlet locations, you will note that most wings have them on the back, somewhat below the very top edge of the wing. The OxyCheq Mach V is different in that the outlet is at the very top edge of the wing. It's over on the left but it is at the very top. There won't be much air trapped when descending vertically.
There are so many choices a person could spend days trying to sort them out and still not come up with a 'perfect' answer.
Have fun!
Richard
Unless there are 2 rump dumps, you can always roll to a position from which it is difficult to vent the wing. This isn't unique to any particular type of wing, it's based on the idea that the bubble tends to rise. In a heads up position, the rump dump may not work at all if there is very little air in the wing. I think in any BC, there is a certain amount of effort required to manage the bubble.
In one of the other threads we have been discussing the Deep Sea Supply LCD-30 wing, which is a horseshoe, and comparing it to the OxyCheq Mach V, which is a torus. There are a lot of divers using the LCD-30 (including me) and they ALL like it a lot. Then again, the Mach V users like their wing - a lot! I don't think there is much substance to the debate re: torus vs horseshoe.
The neat thing about the BP/W is that you get to choose. If you want a torus wing, no problem! They're all over the place. There are 9 single tank wings available from Deep Sea Supply https://www.deepseasupply.com/index.php?category=wings Some are horseshoe and some are torus.
Some wings, like the DSS, have the top outlet at the center of the wing. Others have it over on the left. It could be argued that the center outlet design will be easier to vent.
When you look at the various outlet locations, you will note that most wings have them on the back, somewhat below the very top edge of the wing. The OxyCheq Mach V is different in that the outlet is at the very top edge of the wing. It's over on the left but it is at the very top. There won't be much air trapped when descending vertically.
There are so many choices a person could spend days trying to sort them out and still not come up with a 'perfect' answer.
Have fun!
Richard
deepseafalcon
Contributor
assuming you also got a fair amount of dive time in a conventional BCD - what is it that sold you? (just curiosity)
with the cheap $$$, I think most of the US made rigs should be quite affordable to you right now, some outright cheap, inlcuding the S&H.
with the cheap $$$, I think most of the US made rigs should be quite affordable to you right now, some outright cheap, inlcuding the S&H.
Let me define ´fair´in this context. I did my 5 OW dives and 9 more in various rental jackets. Then last Saturday and Sunday I spent around 5 hours in the water with the 2 BP/Ws.
When I tried to get my LDS to rent me a BP/W I was given the old "you'll drown because you won't be able to stay upright on the surface" line, which I thought was ridiculous. The first thing that "sold" me was that not once during last weekend did I have the slightest problem staying upright on the surface, even in a mild chop. I could stay upright, lie on my back and lean forward at will, so there was a myth busted. Eventhough my wing was relatively small, I had no trouble staying afloat. In my first dive I sorted out my weights (ditched 5 of the 6 Kg I used to dive with!), despite diving a 5.5 mil suit, as opposed to the 3 mil I had dived so far.
The other thing that "sold me" was the sense of freedom I enjoyed by having my torso area free from pockets, straps, padding, bladders, etc. All I needed for my dives could be clipped onto the D-rings, including the SMB I used for the very first time. Even during the dry runs before the dive, I had developed enough of a muscle memory to be able to clip/unlcip the SPG and primary regulator with one hand without looking, which is more than I can say for the octopus socket, which, 10 minutes into a dive would come loose and just float behind me like the console.
Regarding prices, the Eclipse still sells here for over 600 Euros, which is illogical, given the exchange rate, so I will have to find an on-line shop elswhere in Europe, which will have adjusted the price accordingly. Same goes for other brands sold in Greece - still overpriced.
When I tried to get my LDS to rent me a BP/W I was given the old "you'll drown because you won't be able to stay upright on the surface" line, which I thought was ridiculous. The first thing that "sold" me was that not once during last weekend did I have the slightest problem staying upright on the surface, even in a mild chop. I could stay upright, lie on my back and lean forward at will, so there was a myth busted. Eventhough my wing was relatively small, I had no trouble staying afloat. In my first dive I sorted out my weights (ditched 5 of the 6 Kg I used to dive with!), despite diving a 5.5 mil suit, as opposed to the 3 mil I had dived so far.
The other thing that "sold me" was the sense of freedom I enjoyed by having my torso area free from pockets, straps, padding, bladders, etc. All I needed for my dives could be clipped onto the D-rings, including the SMB I used for the very first time. Even during the dry runs before the dive, I had developed enough of a muscle memory to be able to clip/unlcip the SPG and primary regulator with one hand without looking, which is more than I can say for the octopus socket, which, 10 minutes into a dive would come loose and just float behind me like the console.
Regarding prices, the Eclipse still sells here for over 600 Euros, which is illogical, given the exchange rate, so I will have to find an on-line shop elswhere in Europe, which will have adjusted the price accordingly. Same goes for other brands sold in Greece - still overpriced.
deepseafalcon
Contributor
sounds like all the things you experienced are quite typical for many "first time BP/W" divers, or "converted novices"
Since money seems to matter to you:
suggest you also look at other brands than Halcyon. Some have much better pricing.
So with the cheap USD it really becomes a steal even with shipping and tax considered. Examples are Deep Sea Supply, Oxycheq, Hollis (also available at leisurepro.com !), OMS, Dive Rite etc.
halocline
Contributor
Now that the Essentials course is over and I have dived both a Halcyon and an Oxycheq BP/Wing, I know that BP/W is the rig for me. Will have to research brands, but here's another one who joined the dark side
Hopefully netdoc will see this and re-think his earlier post chastising someone for bringing up the BP/W idea. I can't believe how divisive this topic can be.
You will not regret getting a BP/W. The full circle style vs horseshoe style wing debate is an old one and not particularly important. What is important is that you get a wing that's the right size for your diving. Most bigger doubles wings as well as the "hybrid" wings designed to compromise between single tank and doubles are horseshoe style. Those have often been compared to smaller full circle style, and of course the smaller ones perform much better with single tanks, so the conclusion was that "circle is better than horseshoe." This is simply not true, but few companies make a true single wing in horseshoe that's small enough. Deep sea supply is one of those; their small LCD wings are great.
You'll have to decide on a steel plate or AL depending on your weight needs. If you post your current weight needs, maybe what kind of tank you dive with and what kind of exposure suit you use, we can help you make that decision. As far as the brands go, both halcyon and oxycheq make excellent stuff, usually oxycheq is less expensive. Also consider Deep sea supply, although you would have to buy direct from the company here in the U.S. I'm sure they ship gear to Europe all the time and the customer service is outstanding.
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