Orange Grove fatality?

[cerich]

Unfortunate but yup.

big money maker with a whole bunch of newly minted instructors and forums propagating misleading claims about being "safer", what could go wrong?

big money maker...not really. it is still pretty small

 

[PfcAJ]

I have switched regs in real life... actually even did with BM and a deco reg once in open water at a stop on drift deco. SM is stupid easy to switch a reg

Id love to see that maneuver in a cave in low vis on the line. God help you if you drop an oring. There's been enough times that I've had trouble lining up a din or dropped an oring on the surface just chillin that I know I dont want to try that trick underwater in the dark holding my breath.

Or yanno, not depending on switching regs underwater as your contingency plan.

It's even worse when you're a new cave diver and the pucker factor is so high that you're now an underwater diamond factory.

 

[rjack321]

It's even worse when you're a new cave diver and the pucker factor is so high that you're now an underwater diamond factory.

I have made a few diamonds over the years, how do I cash them in?

 

[cerich]

Id love to see that maneuver in a cave in low vis on the line. God help you if you drop an oring.

Or yanno, not depending on switching regs underwater as your contingency plan.

It's even worse when you're a new cave diver and the pucker factor is so high that you're now an underwater diamond factory.

I am not saying it is the first and best option, I will also say that in all my years of doing this I have never seen a hose failure like in the image you shared earlier, I have seen them where they would lose just as much gas...but completely separated? nah....

I think the additional risks in SM over BM have been a little exaggerated when we look at the"likely" failures. However with a inexperienced diver...I will grant that possibly BM is possibly slightly better to manage in the aw s(^$ times. That said, in the incident we are talking about with all the issues.. I don't really think it is the primary factor. Divers in doubles (tech trained) have been recovered with gas in one side and isolated...

 

[rjack321]

That said, in the incident we are talking about with all the issues.. I don't really think it is the primary factor.

Primary based on what I saw on CDF seems to be the visual jump followed by some sort of vis blowout.

It is unclear to me where they entered.

 

[karstdvr]

Great for the pool. Not so much for real life.

Reminds me a Trey's idea for WKPP divers to use their oral inflator hose as an air source, and would proceed to demonstrate exhaling and inhaling as if an there was an emergency.

 

[The Laconic]

How about we start calling them "dead diver jumps", or "suicide jumps"

I love this. These accident threads are always half-full of people saying "we need to change the culture" without any specific ideas about how to do so. This is a specific idea, though, and it's so catchy it just might work to effect some positive change.

 

[PfcAJ]

Reminds me a Trey's idea for WKPP divers to use their oral inflator hose as an air source, and would proceed to demonstrate exhaling and inhaling as if an there was an emergency.

I think thats more viable than switching regs while holding your breath. But still no ones teaching that and it hasn't been mentioned with any seriousness since the early 2000s, unlike this swap regs thing which is literally part of the curriculum in some SM courses.

 

[cerich]

I think thats more viable than switching regs while holding your breath. But still no ones teaching that and it hasn't been mentioned with any seriousness since the early 2000s, unlike this swap regs thing which is literally part of the curriculum in some SM courses.

I am curious... so you contend that as opposed to trying something that may not work..or may and save your bacon... that the option is to not even try? That all said, any tech diver should have confidence in holding their breath for a minute while "working the problem" it's doable but most tech divers can't and have never been encouraged or shown they can.

I am not in any way trying to say that switching a reg while holding breath will always work. I do think however that the odds of (other than diver error) being in a position of not being able to access gas in one cylinder, while higher than BM is still exceptionally low, and reasonably mitigated by good gas planning and team diving. But like everything that is...until it isn't, no different than with doubles where the "huh" still happens because in emergencies common sense is not so common and newer and or more experienced divers that haven't practiced for a while sometimes forget what they are supposed to do, and pay a hefty price.

 

[PfcAJ]

I am curious... so you contend that as opposed to trying something that may not work..or may and save your bacon... that the option is to not even try? That all said, any tech diver should have confidence in holding their breath for a minute while "working the problem" it's doable but most tech divers can't and have never been encouraged or shown they can.

I am not in any way trying to say that switching a reg while holding breath will always work. I do think however that the odds of (other than diver error) being in a position of not being able to access gas in one cylinder, while higher than BM is still exceptionally low, and reasonably mitigated by good gas planning and team diving. But like everything that is...until it isn't, no different than with doubles where the "huh" still happens because in emergencies common sense is not so common and newer and or more experienced divers that haven't practiced for a while sometimes forget what they are supposed to do, and pay a hefty price.

Oh no, I'd definitely try! Not keen on drowning But I think the idea is oversold and not all that realistic in a cave environment. I also think that holding your breath while solving a potentially complex problem while stressed, in the dark, on the line, etc is much easier to type than to do.

Keep it simple.