OW course and regulator failures

[AfterDark]

I did have a regulator fail closed but it was because the wrong parts were used to assemble it, so it wasn't built to design; which is an example of how hard it is to get a closed failure, it requires human intervention.

 

[petIQe]

Ummm, it's rather a philosophical question...
Again, I'm not saying it happens a lot. But I think it should not be ignored or denied at a beginner course, if it CAN happen, no matter why. I guess it wouldn't be more scary to hear than that you can also use up all your gas and have to handle that situation.


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[tbone1004]

that is why the suicide strap method for your secondary is nice, if the primary fails closed, then switch to the secondary. A second stage failure is extraordinarily unlikely to begin with, and is the only way for it to fail closed, so being able to easily and quickly access your secondary is important. That being said, situational awareness and good buddy etiquette will fix most of those problems.

 

[Colliam7]

My question: Why do they teach at PADI OW courses that when a regulator fails, it will ALWAYS FREE-FLOW? Or it was just that one instructor I heard saying this?

To the best of my knowledge, this is NOT taught in PADI courses, per se. I suspect the individual instructor was offering personal comment, perhaps trying to reassure the student audience that even if a regulator 'fails' it will still deliver air.

I have never seen such a statement included in the PADI OW Lesson Guides, in the OW student manual, in the OW eLearning modules, or for that matter in the PADI Guide to Teaching, or in the Instructor manual, etc.

There was a recent SB thread which tangentially addressed the question: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ba...pressure-port-blocked-anyone-seen-before.html. In that case, the user observed what was apparently a blockage of a high pressure port (not a LP port), which resulted in a failure of the SPG to register any cylinder pressure, even when the valve was fully opened. Presumably, the same thing could happen with a LP port, although very unlikely. I have personally never seen it (as is the case with several of the respondents who have already commented). But, I continue to expand my base of experience every day, and plan to do so until . . .

As an Instructor I would be unlikely to make such a categorical statement ('ALWAYS free-flow'). I imagine the Instructor's intentions were good, but I would counsel against such statements being made.

 

[flots am]

Hi Scuba Divers,
I'm sorry if there's another topic about this question... I didn't find any.

My question: Why do they teach at PADI OW courses that when a regulator fails, it will ALWAYS FREE-FLOW? Or it was just that one instructor I heard saying this?
What about other training agencies?


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That's sort of a lie of omission.

While I've never, ever heard of an internal regulator failure that caused it to not deliver air, you can still have "no air" because:

• You're out of air
• The first stage split in half (happens on some older, improperly serviced SCUBAPros)
• The burst disk blew on your tank
• The tank was contaminated and clogged the dip tube or first stage inlet filter
• Other stuff I don't want to bother listing right now.

So while the information is technically correct, in reality, it's not useful. You always need to be ready that any breath will have been your last, and have a plan for quickly obtaining more air.

flots.

 

[Roatan Joe]

For me, it isn't a question. It CAN happen. Period. The question is that if it should or should not be mentioned during a course and that if it's good to say it can not happen.

Nothing would surprise me as far as what one instructor may have said. The PADI curriculum mentions that regulators are designed to free flow when they fail. There's nothing that prohibits an instructor from providing additional information, including mentioning that although designed to freeflow during failures, anything is possible... Hell I guess it's possible that a plastic regulator housing could suddenly split open and fall apart underwater.

With that said, I think it would be silly for an instructor to state that any piece of equipment could never fail or only fail in one way. Fin, mask, BCD, reg, tank, inflator valve, hose, weight pocket.. anything could fail in a number of ways. Okay maybe not everything... I've never heard about an individual lead weight failing, but that's about it.

I think we are really splitting hairs here. If you heard an instructor say something that didn't seem right, why not ask him to clarify? The difference between saying "a regulator is designed to free flow when it fails" versus "a regulator will always free flow if it fails" is a pretty subtle difference and doesn't really make much of a difference in the grand scheme of things. I could probably sit through any open water class and come up with multiple things that were said in less than a perfect way. Of course we strive to not say inaccurate things, but we are all humans and it's really easy to not word something 100% correct.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Nothing would surprise me as far as what one instructor may have said. The PADI curriculum mentions that regulators are designed to free flow when they fail. There's nothing that prohibits an instructor from providing additional information, including mentioning that although designed to freeflow during failures, anything is possible... Hell I guess it's possible that a plastic regulator housing could suddenly split open and fall apart underwater.

With that said, I think it would be silly for an instructor to state that any piece of equipment could never fail or only fail in one way. Fin, mask, BCD, reg, tank, inflator valve, hose, weight pocket.. anything could fail in a number of ways. Okay maybe not everything... I've never heard about an individual lead weight failing, but that's about it.

I think we are really splitting hairs here. If you heard an instructor say something that didn't seem right, why not ask him to clarify? The difference between saying "a regulator is designed to free flow when it fails" versus "a regulator will always free flow if it fails" is a pretty subtle difference and doesn't really make much of a difference in the grand scheme of things. I could probably sit through any open water class and come up with multiple things that were said in less than a perfect way. Of course we strive to not say inaccurate things, but we are all humans and it's really easy to not word something 100% correct.

I'm not so sure I agree. If the student is taught that as long as he has air in his tank, the worst POSSIBLE failure is a freeflow. That is much less scary than the worst possible case being.. you take a breath, exhale and you ain't getting no more.. that has an entirely different feeling to it and is what I would want my students to think..." don't bet your life on a regulator"

 

[flots am]

I'm not so sure I agree. If the student is taught that as long as he has air in his tank, the worst POSSIBLE failure is a freeflow. That is much less scary than the worst possible case being.. you take a breath, exhale and you ain't getting no more.. that has an entirely different feeling to it and is what I would want my students to think..." don't bet your life on a regulator"

I like a little scary. It keeps buddies together and new divers alert.

All this diving-tourist-warm-water-and-sunshine-safe-as-in-your-mother's-arms crap in the marketing materials really bothers me.

SCUBA doesn't need to be thought of like a Mad Max Death Match, but running out of air without being able to handle it one way or another can certainly be fatal.

flots.

 

[Vegan Shark]

that is why the suicide strap method for your secondary is nice, if the primary fails closed, then switch to the secondary. A second stage failure is extraordinarily unlikely to begin with, and is the only way for it to fail closed, so being able to easily and quickly access your secondary is important. That being said, situational awareness and good buddy etiquette will fix most of those problems.

I don't know why ALL agencies don't require secondaries on a necklace. It's by far the safest, most convenient method. None of this yellow octopus in random places crap.

 

[Roatan Joe]

I'm not so sure I agree. If the student is taught that as long as he has air in his tank, the worst POSSIBLE failure is a freeflow. That is much less scary than the worst possible case being.. you take a breath, exhale and you ain't getting no more.. that has an entirely different feeling to it and is what I would want my students to think..." don't bet your life on a regulator"

I'm trying to say, there is a subtle difference in the wording of the two sentences.. It could be easy to misstate and it could be easy to be misunderstood. I said in the grand scheme of things it isn't going to make much difference because it could be a faulty 1st or 2nd stage, a clogged dip tube, a problem with the hose, clogged tank valve or no air left in the tank / faulty SPG or probably several other things I haven't even thought about. The diver obviously needs to immediately consider himself out of air and not worry at that moment in time about what might be causing the regulator to not deliver air. Out of air obviously means to immediately seek air from another diver or your pony bottle, or head to the surface.

I think this is probably why the PADI OW Manual doesn't really go into any details about the possibility of a faulty regulator failing to deliver air.