PADI Divemaster course

[Warren_L]

It sounds as if the worst thing that can come out of the DM program is you learn nothing, it can't be all that bad. If you come out with skills "that should have been there already", that in itself would be worth something?

 

[Col.Maniac]

I agree about people doing the rescue diver course, you defently learn more about problems and how problems occur and how to deal with them. As before I started doing the R/D course I had a few minor problems like bottling out of doing a dive because of poor vis, physicological and mental stress which of course I did not know the signs for it which made my first real dive alot harder. Since reading the R/D manual learing about stress etc I now feel more comfortable as i know what to look for and how do deal with it. To make a point I did a dive in zero visibility max distance you could see was 1 inch infront of your face , i did the dive with no problems, had i done this before thinking about doing the R/D course i would have bottled out of it again.
What I would say to anyone wanting or thinking about doing the R/D course to go for it!

 

[seanrollins]

Roakey,

You said, "But if you want to increase your skill at diving, by which I mean looking at the pretty fishes being a safer, more efficient and more precise DIVER, and be able to pass these skills on to the students you assist with, take the DIRF."

Can you please point out some of these skills that a PADI Dive Master is not competent enough at to pass on to students? I'm not saying they don't exist, but if your instructor was anywhere near as strict as mine, you'd have these skills mastered by then end of the DM course. Are you talking about general diving skills as opposed to the skills tested in the PADI DM course? Anybody entering the DM program should have general diving skills mastered. If they don't, what the heck are they doing enrolling in the Dive "Master" program.

Thanks, take care,

 

[jamiei]

Seanrollins... I think I asked the same question and never got an answer... about what these skills are that the people that don't take DIRF don't have, but really need. Or do these rec divers really need them?

If the odds are 100% that my trim is all wrong, explain exactly how my trim should be and why if you would. I'm 6',2", 175 lbs. In saltwater I use no weight on my waist, an alum fredt backplate w/heavy (5-6lb) STA. I sink quite easily and can't move weight around much as I see it to change my trim. I hardly ever have any air at all in my wing. In freshwater with a 6mm full wetsuit, I use 5lbs on my waist with otherwise the same setup and probably couldn't pull off a fin pivot nearly as well.

We're all here to either learn or teach, right? Trouble with this board is that I see a lot of talk about stuff (preaching) without much explaining(teaching). If you want to sell people on the DIRF class, sell them by giving some concrete examples.

Again, I was only asking for examples to support your opinion Roakey. I never said you were wrong. I never said I was a good diver at all. So no reason to point out that you feel I'm not or that I think I am... I already cleared that up (I said I wasn't).

I also never said that I felt the DM course would make anyone a more skilled diver. My statements were merely asking why a diver needs to have DIRF training to be considered a good diver as you seemed to indicate. A good diver is a safe diver. Some will argue that unless you're DIR, you're not a safe diver... I don't think the statistics will support that. Funny how instead of giving examples to support your opinion, you chose to point out that you think i'm not a good diver. I see that a lot with those that push DIR... even those that are recent converts... Push DIRF a lot, but not really give any hard examples of anything. And when someone asks this very question I am... you get someone saying that I wouldn't understand because I haven't taken the class or something like that or that "you don't know what you don't know". I never said I knew anything... I just asked to fill me in on what I don't know, but need to know to be a good diver... I didn't come out of reading your post with anything I didn't have before I read it. Only that you feel we should see your opinion as fact just because you have more training and say so. Sounds like the same thing you see when you first got OW certified and the LDS owner thinks you'll believe every word that comes out of his mouth. I'm definately not comparing you to that Roakey, so don't take it the wrong way, but it may seem to be a similar attitude to some.

Just some examples if you don't mind...

 

[Cudabait]

I continue to read with interest the posts in this thread. Basically, there are three things we all can do in life: lead, follow or get out of the way!! It would seem that DIRF is another collateral diving specialty, as is any other specialty. It just has another name. A trained divemaster does not have to have this training to remain a professional. Whereas a DIRF must sucessfully complete a divemasters course if he desires to BECOME a professional. Commercial diving is another matter, and, we would be comparing apples with oranges. To repeat what has already been said in this thread--a good diver is a safe diver.

 

[seanrollins]

jamiei,

I totally agree with you. These guys will rant off about how good DIRF is, but won't give us some examples. My uneducated (since I haven't taken DIRF) opinion is that DIRF will teach you what a bad Dive Master or Instructor was unable to teach you. Say, a Dive Master/Instructor who only taught you the curriculum, and didn't include any hints/suggestions based upon experience.

Roakey, I'm still very curious about some examples. Thanks!

 

[roakey]

Horizontal static trim, alternative kicks, anti-silting techniques, station keeping, maintaining trim and buoyancy under task loading, precision ascent rate, team mentality, COG/COB awareness, correct weight distribution and the mental set that sometimes you get in the water just to practice, to name a few.

Not to mention a far superior way of getting air to an OOG diver.

DIRF is not a speciality course. It's what all divers should have been taught somewhere along the way, but the fast-track recreational industry is more interested in pumping through divers at a reduced cost so they can sell gear than actually teaching these useful skills has fallen beside the wayside.

I would love to see the need for the DIRF to be eliminated by better recreational training, but seeing how year by year it gets further and further dummed down, I don't see that ever happening.

Roak

 

[jamiei]

I would be to differ and feel that a lot of divemasters can and do have a lot of the skills you listed. These skills aren't any top secret skills that require intensive training or anything the GUI or DIRF invented. Some skills are important in certain environments, but none of the ones listed are what I see to be an absolute necessity to be considered a good diver, especially a divemaster in your average rec diving areas. I think we all realize that its imperative to get in the pool and practice your skills or devote open water dives to practicing safety skills.

 

[Col.Maniac]

Hi,
What is a DIRF course? Got any internet links so I can find out about it?
Thanks

 

[roakey]

jamiei once bubbled...
I would be to differ and feel that a lot of divemasters can and do have a lot of the skills you listed. These skills aren't any top secret skills that require intensive training or anything the GUI or DIRF invented. Some skills are important in certain environments, but none of the ones listed are what I see to be an absolute necessity to be considered a good diver, especially a divemaster in your average rec diving areas. I think we all realize that its imperative to get in the pool and practice your skills or devote open water dives to practicing safety skills.

Exactly the response I expected: "Oh, I know all that stuff."

Remember: "You don't know what you don't know."

A number of replies back I mentioned that I've taken a few divers out that thought they were good divers and ended up being amazed at what they didn't know how to do.

They all said the same things you said above. "Oh, I know all that stuff."

There are certain phrases and wordings that if used, shows that the person has an inkling as to what's going on in terms or trim, buoyancy and other skills. I haven't seen anything close from the DM class proponents in this thread.

How did recreational scuba get to be this bad? Here's why:

jamiei once bubbled...
Some skills are important in certain environments, but none of the ones listed are what I see to be an absolute necessity to be considered a good diver, especially a divemaster in your average rec diving areas.

In other words, mediocrity is acceptable in a divemaster. How nice.

Your students can't exceed the bar you set, and if you set the bar low, their abilities will be low too.

Again, given that even experienced divers come away from the DIRF amazed says that there’s something lacking in everyone's diving background.

I can show you the door, the rest is up to you.

But that's right, you know all that stuff already. Congratulations, you’re already showing the makings of a typical divemaster. Wait until you make instructor, then you’ll KNOW you know everything!

Roak