PADI Dry Suit Class

[D_B]

Commendable thinking, Ron

I'm thinking that It's not what is taught for use as buoyancy control that is the most important (people use both methods, and sometimes switch between them)
What matters most is what your taught to do when things go wrong

 

[D_B]

This is a report of the class I took for my drysuit .. I've read here many times that if you have a mentor , it's no big deal to learn a drysuit .... my thoughts on that after taking this class is that he better be a darn good one.

DB
_________________________________________________________________________

PADI Drysuit Class (plus all optional training)

1st pool session ... 3 people + instructor, Ian Martin

Weighting was to be 6lbs more than what each used for wetsuit diving (wanted us heavy) and we were to only use BC at surface, deflate BC and use drysuit under water for buoyancy control so as to only monitor one device and keep task loading down.

We first went over the answers we gave for the questions in the PADI Drysuit book, with the instructor asking questions about them and setting up scenarios and talking about our responses to them, and adding his own.

We suited up and checked each other pre-dive check, carried our gear over to the pool and put BC/tank into pool first, ourselves jumping in after ... instructor stressing that we should get air out of suit before jumping in and that we should try to keep head from going under to lesson stress on zipper and neck seal.
In pool without gear or fins to demonstrate that in just a drysuit your buoyant , and without fins your pretty helpless ... we then donned our gear in the water and descended to bottom (10ft)
NOTE: each drill was demonstrated to us first, then we did them.
The first drill was to demonstrate that inflater can not fill suit faster than it will vent, IF your in the proper position
... Fin pivots (did poorly, floaty feet & fins)
.... practiced hovering, then swimming, then stopping to a hover (buoyancy was OK, but couldn't stay still when hovering, feet were twitchy cause I could not get stable)
... then feet up, head down hovering to show that just having air in feet does not change your buoyancy, only your trim
... then we practiced finding and removing inflater hose on the count of three
... then practiced recoveries, we float over to instructor, he holds BC, pushes inflater for the count of three, then tips you feet up and lets you go .. rolling and bending at waist, while kicking hard (not good, went to surface several times, once one of my neoprene wetsuit boots that I was using as "rock boots" inflated enough to have foot come out leave me stranded with boot/fin flopping on surface upside down (instructor just watches you, waiting to see what you'll try, and if you can come out of it, then discusses what you did, or did not try) ... Instructor said that technically after one pool session we could do the OW dives now (not that he would let us, he was just pointing that out) he asked if I felt ready to go in the ocean .. I just laughed at him .. no way!

2nd Pool Session ... 4 people + instructor

Buddy checked gear
I had tank lower by about 12 to 25mm to get feet down (steel HP100) practiced fin pivots (yay, I can do them well now)
Practiced descents , horizontal, not to hit bottom, (needed to add lots of air to stop decent, can tell I'm heavy)
... more swimming, matching instructors depth changes, and hovering when stopping
... suit inflater removal drills
... more recovery practice, with inflater removal ( once I got both feet to come out of boots, leaving me stranded on surface , I struggled, helpless and then thought about using the last ditch, tangled in kelp, I'm out of air, recovery method .. use a knife to poke a hole in your suit legs to let the air out! :laughing: (talked to me/us after, inflate BC to get horizontal) I had to get out of pool to fix my feet/boots , then ran out of time at that point because pool closing.

... I learned that the boots I was using are in no way suitable for a drysuit (seasoft stealth) them being made of neoprene, they can expand when inflated, allowing my feet to come out .. I went and got proper rock boots!

3rd Pool Session ... 2 people + Instructor

We practiced more inflater disconnect drills, then coupled them with suit inflated/feet up drills .. went to surface several times again .. instructor said to us that we were not reacting fast enough, don't wait there after he inflates suit, kick hard right at the count of three when he lets go ...we then practiced the hard part, while wearing all cold water gear, gloves, hood, we were going to practice pulling open neck seal along with the feet up/stuck inflater drill, said that he will not pass us unless we can do this without reaching the surface ... when we tried it again I was very much better, kicking hard, I immediately rolled on right side while disconnecting inflater, bend at waist, get head up, pull open neck seal, level out, return to instructor while reconnecting inflater hose .. I did that 4 times without ever getting close to surface and 1 time actually stopping in front of instructor hovering without ever touching bottom .. passed the hard part!


.................... Ocean Dives .........................


1st Ocean Dive ... 2 people + Instructor .. to Wreck Alley 15 minutes off coast

First dive was on the 366ft Destroyer Yukon, laying on port side, Depth 98ft , Viz 25ft

We geared up and went in, practiced gear removal and donning on surface, then descended line, stopping at 20ft to recheck buddies, gear, then descended and gathered at forward turret, went down to sand to practice fin pivots (as planned) I was horizontal whole time on decent, hovered just above instructor as he signaled fin pivot to us, I floated down in front of him and did them for 1 minute .. we then swam around with instructor making depth changes (10ft changes .. 85 to 75ft) that we were to follow, at one point dipping head down off edge of deck and watching us closely to see .. what what we did (to see if we had respect for head down) how we did it and watching for any problems ..we went up at the line at about 24 min when we ran out of NDL time .. slow ascent, stopped at 40ft, 30ft, safety stop at 20ft .. debriefed on surface interval

2nd Ocean Dive .. 2 people + Instructor (didn't lose anyone LOL )

El Rey ... kelp cutter, Depth 75ft, Viz 20 to 30ft

We descended line, stopping at 20ft to buddy/gear check then collected on wreck, Ian tied off a line and we went around the deck, then off to the side, inflater removal drill, then back across deck out to about 30 ft off starboard .. we practiced hovering and at one point instructor pointed at line, then back toward wreck and signaled "see" .. very dimly you could see a darker area, no way would you know that's the wreck without knowing that it was .. at about 23 minutes we returned to our starting point and ascended the line back to the boat, debriefed .. discussed why he ran the line and the reasons to use one .. you can get lost from ascent line on an unfamiliar wreck, current can whip up and we were off the wreck with nothing to hold on to (except the line) if it did kick up.

Great dives, great expereance, with my good friend and Instructor, Ian.
... he will not pass you unless he thinks you will be a safe diver, and thereby have fun diving, stay in the sport and be a good shepherd for our oceans.

This class was a real eye opener and I never would have thought that a drysuit could be so challanging in an emergency, or that the training would be so important .. get it.

BTW .. I passed! ... and he even came here posted and said I looked "very good" out there! :cool2:


(I bet I've forgotten something, but it may be more telling of the quality of instruction by what I do remember)

DB

.

Thanks guys
.. I feel I've accomplished something whenever I pass one of Ian's courses

It was a paid for course .. normally $150, not including book or PIC card ... I payed a bit less, plus the boat dive would have been $75 but I had a two-4-one coupon from Anita on the Marissa ... Marissa Dive Charters, San Diego

I forgot one thing in my report, that the instructor stressed the importance of having enough lift in your wing/BC to support you if your suit completely floods .. diving in cold water in a drysuit and a dinky vacation BC is a recipe for a BIG problem

D_B Good report, thanks for posting.

For those of you concerned about the "drysuit for bouyancy control" issue, keep in mind that the instructor is likely teaching according to agency standards.

IMO, it's more important to know how to manage the air in your drysuit when it's full, rather than with minimal inflation.

How you choose to run it once you're familiar with the pros/cons is up to you.

@DB: Thanks for sharing the report of your drysuit class. It sounds like you got your money's worth! I took a drysuit class at the same shop you did, but I only had one class in the pool. We were still able to do all of the skills you did in that one session. I have a couple of questions for you:
(1) For his drysuit class, does your instructor generally do more than one pool session? I commend him for doing the extra sessions as it sounds like they were necessary to make you feel comfortable...and it took some time to sort out the proper footwear and the technique for feet-first ascent recovery.
(2) Is it standard practice for the instructor to take newbie drysuit divers to the Yukon for Ocean Dive #1? The reason I'm asking is that La Jolla Shores is an excellent training dive site with a sandy bottom that gets gradually deeper. It's very accessible and free to dive. There's a little wall at 60 fsw not too far out from shore. Navigation is super easy -- head east towards shore at end of dive. It seems to me that a rather deep boat dive would not be a great first choice for Ocean Dive #1. The Yukon is a more advanced dive...and people have been known to get into trouble on it. I guess I'm just surprised that your instructor decided to take you on a dive in the 100 fsw range...where narcosis could be an issue. Ultimately, I guess it should depend on your level of experience (boat dives, deep dives, wreck dives) and your comfort level with diving the Yukon. It just seems plain weird to me, though, that you would go there for Ocean Dive #1 in your drysuit when a much more suitable site was available.

FWIW, I've heard of instructors taking AOW students to the Yukon for Dive #1 with no prior pool sessions. So, not only were the instructors doing the "deep dive" as the first dive of the class, but they really had no idea how comfortable the divers were in the water. Consider that some AOW students have never dived in cold water before, and others may have come straight through basic open water class to AOW without gaining any experience in-between classes. This puts a great deal of pressure on DMs who may be asked to watch over students on these dives. To me, this seems like the instructor is taking on a great deal of unnecessary risk. Or perhaps I'm just cautious by nature. I'm interested in hearing what you and others think.

Bubble ...
1 ... I believe that he does two, but at the very least, enough pool sessions that you can repeatedly do the hose disconnect/neck seal pull/hose reconnect/return hovering without reaching the surface (starting from about 8 ft deep)

2 ... I believe it's not his standard practice to take any newbie divers to the Yukon, for any reason ... I think he took me because .. he is confident in my skills, as demonstrated .. in the pool, and on my previous dives with him, and my training, all of which has been with Ian .. plus, I have dived the Yukon twice before.
... as long as your well trained, well briefed, and aware .. depth is your friend, if you can handle depth/ buoyancy changes at 8 feet, than handling them at 70 feet is going to be easier.

La Jolla Shores would be a challenge to swim out to the canyon with a drysuit on (200 yards) and shooting to the surface from 60 , 70 or 80ft or so from the canyon, is no different than doing the same thing from the same depth on the Yukon ... Not Good

My weight in the ocean is 13 lbs in a Knighthawk BC with a 7mm suit and a HP100 thats about 2 lbs neg empty ... about spot on
Pool weight was 19 lbs in a DUI Flex 50/50 drysuit that fits me very well with hardly any slack (I can do the bend knees squat and reach behind me just fine) .. heavy
Ocean dive was 21 lbs with a 320gm fleece undergarment and a miltary polypropylene thermal top ... heavy

Yes, DUI warm collar, and yes we were told that wrist seal works too.

All my training is with the same instructor, up to Rescue and DAN O2 .. he knows me
(Gee, look at all those cert's ... I'm a card collector

What I mean is that the pressure change is much greater going up from 8ft than going up the same 8ft from 80ft, thereby exaggerating any mishandling of air in suit .. still, I understand you wouldn't take just the average Joe Blow there.

No weight checks, In pool I wore 6 lbs more than I use for a 7mm suit in the ocean, as instructed (way heavy) ... For the drysuit ocean dive, I added 2 lbs more to that, as instructed (heavy)
... the weight checks can and will be done on future dives, and I suspect that maybe 18, 19lbs will be good for the ocean

I've dived many times at La Jolla (mostly training) and that surface swim is a long (long) one, and that's just to get to 20ft

I've found out that 3 pool sessions is standard with him
In adition to all of the above, he only trains students with at least AOW

Commendable thinking, Ron

I'm thinking that It's not what is taught for use as buoyancy control that is the most important (people use both methods, and sometimes switch between them)
What matters most is what your taught to do when things go wrong

Colecting my thoughts to save

 

[D_B]

Just to poke a little friendly fun, from the discussion here, one would think the two methods of controlling buoyancy in drysuit diving must be very complicated and/or involve advanced muscle memory training or something....

That's not the case, IMHO.

One doesn't have to "unlearn" anything to switch from one method to the other. No training has been "wasted", since both are useful in different situations. Heck, I've switched from one method to the other in the middle of a dive just to keep from overheating....

FWIW, here's my perspective on the two methods of buoyancy control for drysuit diving.

Use of only the drysuit for buoyancy control (BCD empty, except on the surface):
​

• Simpler to vent just one device on sawtooth, shallow dives or on ascent (arguably safer in an out-of-control ascent, provided the drysuit exhaust valve can vent fast enough)
• Undergarments are warmer (more air means more loft, less squeeze and drier)
• Massive, and potentially dangerous, air shifting or burping can occur with a loose fitting drysuit or with the larger air bubble needed to offset more negative configurations, like doubles
• Trim can be harder to maintain

Use of the BCD for primary buoyancy control (drysuit has just enough air for comfort):

• Less air shifting, easier to maintain trim
• BCD will have higher practical lift capacity than the drysuit
• BCD's higher capacity exhaust valves vent more quickly
• In shallow water (less than 30'), coordinating the venting of both the bcd and the drysuit may become difficult to do quickly enough to avoid an out of control ascent
• Undergarments may be less warm, since the drysuit is typically squeezed much more

There may be other pros and cons and these may be disputed, but this might be a starting point.

I might add that using the BCD for primary buoyancy control is quite manageable even though it will actually involve control of two buoyancy devices. The drysuit buoyancy rarely needs adjustment during a typical deeper square profile dive. For shallow, sawtooth dives, both buoyancy devices will need adjustments more frequently, of course.

Personally, for the significantly increased warmth, I use only the drysuit for my buoyancy control on my often shallow, sawtooth dives. I'm usually wearing quite a bit of insulation and weight (38 to 54 lbs, depending on water temps), so I have a significant amount of air that can shift around. Despite all that, because my suit's not baggy, the air shifting is fairly slow and limited and not a problem. YMMV.

However, there are occasions when I switch back to using my BCD for my primary buoyancy control.

One such occasion would be when diving warmer water with very light insulation. The resultant loose fit of the drysuit allows rapid air shifting, so I vent most of it out and use the BCD instead.

Another occasion, as I mentioned, is when I want to avoid overheating by increasing suit squeeze. If half of a dive is in water temps in the low 40's F and the other half is in the upper 60's F, I may switch methods on the same dive.

Easy peasy....

Dave C

good post on both methods of using suit/wing buoyancy control

 

[on_two_wheels]

Personally, I use the DS for buoyancy to a degree. However, if I'm warm and cozy at a given depth and need just a bit more, I'll add air to the wing. I'll also dump the air in the wing first, as needed. I've found that the amount of air I use to be warm is often close to that needed for neutral buoyancy. I'm glad I use the DS alone mostly since I recently had to surface another diver that was a bit panicked. If I had to deal with suit, wing and another bcd, that would be a lot to control in short times. Still, I pretty much dumped the bcd and just used my own gear to bring up the other diver. Using only ONE system in this situation is even more simplified/easier/safer, in my opinion.