PADI Dry Suit Class

[Bubbletrubble]

.................... Ocean Dives .........................


1st Ocean Dive ... 2 people + Instructor .. to Wreck Alley 15 minutes off coast

First dive was on the 366ft Destroyer Yukon, laying on port side, Depth 98ft , Viz 25ft

We geared up and went in, practiced gear removal and donning on surface, then descended line, stopping at 20ft to recheck buddies, gear, then descended and gathered at forward turret, went down to sand to practice fin pivots (as planned) I was horizontal whole time on decent, hovered just above instructor as he signaled fin pivot to us, I floated down in front of him and did them for 1 minute .. we then swam around with instructor making depth changes (10ft changes .. 85 to 75ft) that we were to follow, at one point dipping head down off edge of deck and watching us closely to see .. what what we did (to see if we had respect for head down) how we did it and watching for any problems ..we went up at the line at about 24 min when we ran out of NDL time .. slow ascent, stopped at 40ft, 30ft, safety stop at 20ft .. debriefed on surface interval

@DB: Thanks for sharing the report of your drysuit class. It sounds like you got your money's worth! I took a drysuit class at the same shop you did, but I only had one class in the pool. We were still able to do all of the skills you did in that one session. I have a couple of questions for you:
(1) For his drysuit class, does your instructor generally do more than one pool session? I commend him for doing the extra sessions as it sounds like they were necessary to make you feel comfortable...and it took some time to sort out the proper footwear and the technique for feet-first ascent recovery.
(2) Is it standard practice for the instructor to take newbie drysuit divers to the Yukon for Ocean Dive #1? The reason I'm asking is that La Jolla Shores is an excellent training dive site with a sandy bottom that gets gradually deeper. It's very accessible and free to dive. There's a little wall at 60 fsw not too far out from shore. Navigation is super easy -- head east towards shore at end of dive. It seems to me that a rather deep boat dive would not be a great first choice for Ocean Dive #1. The Yukon is a more advanced dive...and people have been known to get into trouble on it. I guess I'm just surprised that your instructor decided to take you on a dive in the 100 fsw range...where narcosis could be an issue. Ultimately, I guess it should depend on your level of experience (boat dives, deep dives, wreck dives) and your comfort level with diving the Yukon. It just seems plain weird to me, though, that you would go there for Ocean Dive #1 in your drysuit when a much more suitable site was available.

FWIW, I've heard of instructors taking AOW students to the Yukon for Dive #1 with no prior pool sessions. So, not only were the instructors doing the "deep dive" as the first dive of the class, but they really had no idea how comfortable the divers were in the water. Consider that some AOW students have never dived in cold water before, and others may have come straight through basic open water class to AOW without gaining any experience in-between classes. This puts a great deal of pressure on DMs who may be asked to watch over students on these dives. To me, this seems like the instructor is taking on a great deal of unnecessary risk. Or perhaps I'm just cautious by nature. I'm interested in hearing what you and others think.

 

[String]

While I agree, the amount of gas is proportional to the weight. The problem arises because the amount of weight governed by many variables such as: Dry suit composition (neoprene vs shell vs hybrid), undergarments, body type, gear choices.

To simply say the amount of gas is minimal is not entirely accurate.

It is accurate. To a *properly* weighted diver the volume of gas is equal to the weight of gas in a full tank. Typically thats 2-3kg max. So 2-3 litres of gas max. Which is a tiny amount.

Also why would you want a bubble moving around the suit when you could avoid the situation completely by using the equipment you're already wearing to adjust buoyancy, the BC?

Firstly 2-3l of gas is not a "bubble". Bubbles are there if someone has too much gas so if there is one they're overweighted. Secondly, the gas still moves around in a BC and wing.

As to why you might want to use just the suit - less bother dumping from 1 source when coming up, less effort to bother inflating one, more gas in the suit means more warmth. There are 2 ways of doing it and id suggest to anyone to try both and see what works best for them and NOT do what others tell them they should do as for a single tank setup either method is perfectly acceptable.

 

[Anti-Hero]

There are 2 ways of doing it and id suggest to anyone to try both and see what works best for them and NOT do what others tell them they should do as for a single tank setup either method is perfectly acceptable.

Exactly my point.

 

[Oside Jimc]

DB, great thread, I start my Dry Suit class on Wednesday and this was a great headsup!

 

[NudeDiver]

can we argue about diving with the vent open, closed or partially closed now, too?

I dive with it open, or almost open. I find it simplifies 'gas management'.

 

[NudeDiver]

95% of all drysuit problems i see are a result of the diver being overweighted.

I'll substantiate that. It seems my drysuit diving has become easier as I have used less weight. For my OW class, which was done in a drysuit, they put me in 50 pounds of lead. Last time I went, I was in 36 pounds of lead. I still felt like I could lose a few pounds, so next time I will try starting with 34 and see how it goes.

 

[Bubbletrubble]

I'll substantiate that. It seems my drysuit diving has become easier as I have used less weight. For my OW class, which was done in a drysuit, they put me in 50 pounds of lead. Last time I went, I was in 36 pounds of lead. I still felt like I could lose a few mounts, so next time I will try starting with 34 and see how it goes.

@NudeDiver: Why not just do a proper weight check? Make sure you have a comfortable amount of air in your suit (to counteract squeeze), there's no air in your wing, and that you have a near empty tank. Why guess...when you don't have to?

 

[NudeDiver]

@NudeDiver: Why not just do a proper weight check? Make sure you have a comfortable amount of air in your suit (to counteract squeeze), there's no air in your wing, and that you have a near empty tank. Why guess...when you don't have to?

Um....I guess I missed the part where I said I didn't do a weight check

 

[D_B]

Bubble ...
1 ... I believe that he does two, but at the very least, enough pool sessions that you can repeatedly do the hose disconnect/neck seal pull/hose reconnect/return hovering without reaching the surface (starting from about 8 ft deep)

2 ... I believe it's not his standard practice to take any newbie divers to the Yukon, for any reason ... I think he took me because .. he is confident in my skills, as demonstrated .. in the pool, and on my previous dives with him, and my training, all of which has been with Ian .. plus, I have dived the Yukon twice before.
... as long as your well trained, well briefed, and aware .. depth is your friend, if you can handle depth/ buoyancy changes at 8 feet, than handling them at 70 feet is going to be easier.

La Jolla Shores would be a challenge to swim out to the canyon with a drysuit on (200 yards) and shooting to the surface from 60 , 70 or 80ft or so from the canyon, is no different than doing the same thing from the same depth on the Yukon ... Not Good

My weight in the ocean is 13 lbs in a Knighthawk BC with a 7mm suit and a HP100 thats about 2 lbs neg empty ... about spot on
Pool weight was 19 lbs in a DUI Flex 50/50 drysuit that fits me very well with hardly any slack (I can do the bend knees squat and reach behind me just fine) .. heavy
Ocean dive was 21 lbs with a 320gm fleece undergarment and a miltary polypropylene thermal top ... heavy

 

[Bubbletrubble]

Bubble ...
1 ... I believe that he does two, but at the very least, enough pool sessions that you can repeatedly do the hose disconnect/neck seal pull/hose reconnect/return hovering without reaching the surface (starting from about 8 ft deep)

That sounds reasonable. Do you have the DUI "warm neck" collar + tucked-in hood which makes it a PITA to get to your neck seal? Remember that you have wrist seals for emergency venting, too.

2 ... I believe it's not his standard practice to take any newbie divers to the Yukon, for any reason ... I think he took me because .. he is confident in my skills, as demonstrated .. in the pool, and on my previous dives with him, and my training, all of which has been with Ian .. plus, I have dived the Yukon twice before.
... as long as your well trained, well briefed, and aware .. depth is your friend, if you can handle depth/ buoyancy changes at 8 feet, than handling them at 70 feet is going to be easier.

It's great that your instructor has such confidence in you. It also sounds like he knows you from previous training, so he's probably more familiar with your abilities than Joe Blow diver taking a drysuit class.
I disagree with your assessment that drysuit buoyancy management in clear, warm pool water at 8 ffw is somehow more challenging than in the cold, open ocean with 10 - 15 ft vis at 100 fsw -- where narcosis might complicate matters.

La Jolla Shores would be a challenge to swim out to the canyon with a drysuit on (200 yards) and shooting to the surface from 60 , 70 or 80ft or so from the canyon, is no different than doing the same thing from the same depth on the Yukon ... Not Good

Uh. Are we talking about the same dive site? Getting out to the Main Wall is a piece of cake. Inflate your BCD/wing, flip onto your back, and kick out. It's really not that bad. If you ever want to do it, let me know. PM me with your contact info and we'll do a fun Main Wall dive this coming weekend. Bring your drysuit. I'll try my best to prove to you that the dive sites at the Shores are very accessible...even in a drysuit.

I agree that ascending too quickly from depth is bad...no matter the location. I just think that, on the whole, training conditions (for drysuit class or other dive classes) are more benign at the Shores than on the Yukon. The Yukon dive site bottoms out into sand at about 100 fsw, whereas the underwater terrain at the Shores is very different -- westward from Vallecitos it's gently sloping from the shore to the Main Wall (50 - 55 fsw). At the Shores, one can choose to descend in an area 20 fsw deep. Returning from the Main Wall back to shore, a diver can hug the bottom as a nice visual reference, which facilitates a gradual ascent profile. This can be comforting to divers learning how to use new gear.

Pool weight was 19 lbs in a DUI Flex 50/50 drysuit that fits me very well with hardly any slack (I can do the bend knees squat and reach behind me just fine) .. heavy
Ocean dive was 21 lbs with a 320gm fleece undergarment and a miltary polypropylene thermal top ... heavy

So long as you were wearing the same undergarment + drysuit in both pool and ocean, I would expect there to be a greater difference in your weighting requirement -- closer to a 5 - 6 lb. difference (more weight required in ocean due to increased density of saltwater). Did you do a proper weight check in both kinds of water? To convert your weighting from pool to ocean, you typically add 2.5% of the total weight of you + your rig (incl. empty tank).

PM if you'd like to go diving this weekend.