PADI gave member info to US Government

[drbill]

Well, I can't imagine anything in my SCUBA certification related info would be worth adding to my "enemies list" FBI file from the 60's and 70's. My dive records from back then are probably deteriorating in some LA landfill now.

Doc

 

[MikeFerrara]

Sometimes this is a ploy. If they're willing to produce a court order, I'm willing to produce the records specified in the order. Requiring law enforcement to follow the law is not making enemies.

Have you ever tried?

Besides they weren't breaking any law by asking. warrents or court orders are only required if one refuses to answer the question. I couldn't come up with a reason to refuse other than to make them work harder just because.

 

[RonFrank]

Before the 9/11 disaster, maybe it could have been prevented.

If people believe their privacy is real when it comes to agencies like the FBI, think again.

IMO PADI is doing the right thing, and even it they were not, there is little they could do to stop the FBI from getting this information in any event.

I'm happy to see they are thinking of ways to stop terrorism. Unfortunately the USA has very liberal entry laws, and many easy ways into the country. I do not envy them this job.

Maybe they can contact the Psychic network!

Ron

Ron

 

[robstrash]

I don't see this as much as a privacy issue as an issue of requiring law enforcement to follow the rules. Proceedures have been established to allow law enforcement officials to investigate crimes while protecting citizens from abuses.

Exactly. The law was built to allow the governemnt to get certain pieces of information with a court order. Why not have them get it? I am still waiting on PADI's answer for their privacy policy. The web site says "PADI.com" will release when REQUIRED by law, not requested by law enforcement. Two totally different situations.

And to the people that just answer that they can get all the info on anyone via the internet, that shows how apathetic the American public is that they allow this. The EU rules can be rather Draconian on the issue. Why do you think that the biggest growth crime is identity theft? And they rarely capture/prosecute the offenders. Believe me, you are paying for it even if you are never "selected" by the criminals (via bank charges, insurance rates, fees, etc).

 

[robstrash]

I'm happy to see they are thinking of ways to stop terrorism. Ron

Are they stopping terrorism? Have they arrested SCUBA divers that were planning on blowing things up?

I could think of 100 things that might stop terrorism, but many would be ineffective and not work well (like the TSA).

I don't really care if YOU are willing to give up your privacy, but I am not.

 

[RonFrank]

Are they stopping terrorism?

I don't really care if YOU are willing to give up your privacy, but I am not.

I said "think of ways to stop Terrorism". As to R they stopping it, that is truely impossible to say. If they arrest a potential terrorist, and that individual rots in jail for 50, did they stop a terrorist act? No one can really be sure.

I also did NOT say that I'm willing to give up my privacy. However I am realistic enough to understand that if the FBI wants to find out most anything about me, then can.

On the flip side of this, why does it bother people that the FBI obtained records from PADI? As a US citizen, the FBI already has your employment record, your SSN, your address, your bank information, and MUCH more personal information vs. a certification record.

In addition, what do you expect PADI to do? Say no? Would it be worthwhile for PADI to fight this? Say the results are increased costs to pay for those legal fees? That behavior could also result in more government involvement of the certification process in the name of terrorism.

Ron

 

[robstrash]

In addition, what do you expect PADI to do? Say no? Would it be worthwhile for PADI to fight this? Say the results are increased costs to pay for those legal fees? That behavior could also result in more government involvement of the certification process in the name of terrorism.

Ron

I would prefer that they say "We'll provide you the information when you provide us a warrant." I'm still trying to find out what their privacy policy actually is. So far I can only find PADI.com which I am sure is different than PADI.

This goes back to the airlines, especially JetBlue, who violated their own privacy guidelines by giving information to the government. If I can't trust a company to abide by their own policies, I generally don't do business with them. For example, I really doubt that I would ever join PADI as a member (not that I was ever sure I would anyway).

 

[Scubatooth]

rob strash

you comment about tsa is a sore issue with many people but to me it is totally stupid and the flaws have been proven. what i dont get is you have a problem with my tail clips(which they consider a weapon) in my backpack but you dont have a problem with the montblonc fountain pen and extra tips (sharp point), umm anyone see the dumb logic here, it would take me for ever to kill you with a pr of nail clippers but i could kill you with one movement with the pen. also taking grandma's knitting needles give me a break shes harmless. just do it the easy way as each passenger get on the plane hand them a weapon (gun , knife) then its equal a couple people might get hurt but the odds are against any nut balls that try anything.

as for padi i dont care the address my mail goes to is only a pick up i really dont live there and after i move next year i will be having a po box. but when the padi update comes to town i will be putting this question to them to see what they have to say. because i keep my data private as im currently helping my mom stop a couple of ID thieves trying to run her good credit ( i swear if i find them i will darwin them). So this just handing it over by padi doesnt sit to well.

as for the comment about making enemies , for business i can see the point but for me i have enough contacts that are lawyers that i can stop them from getting it with out proving first.

FWIW

Tooth

 

[UGA]

I owned a dive center at the time and I didn't get the impresison the FBI was going to take no for an answer. After speaking with my lawyer I gave them what they wanted.

If you mean that your lawyer said you had to give that info to them, you need to get a new lawyer.

 

[MikeFerrara]

If you mean that your lawyer said you had to give that info to them, you need to get a new lawyer.

Not what I meant at all. What I meant was that there was no legal reason to not give them what they asked for.

According to my attourny I had no legal obligation to former students to keep the fact that they had begun a class confidential.

It was a simple question. Number one: What were my legal obligations. Answer... none! Number two: what made life easier on me (dive shop owners need things that make life easier). Answer...to answer the FBI's questions honestly and in a timely manor.

I guess if I had a reason to fight the FBI I would but I couldn't think of one.