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PADI tables finally going away?
- Thread starter jgros79
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Is this analogy valid? I'm really not sure:
I just get a feeling that divers who only know dive computers may be like drivers who rely completely on the GPS, can't read a map and really have no idea of where they are. Side note: I'm amazed there are people in that situation.
The GPS has it's place. In a city you don't know, with one way streets, to a specific hard to get to address. As a native New Yorker on a trip through there, I disregarded the GPS (just on for the fun of it), because I knew it would take me into chaos). But maps can be wrong too, if poorly written or out of date.
Dive and decompression theory is the same whether you use tables or a computer, so students get the knowledge. We all know computers are based on tables and are theoretical anyway--at least until they can actually measure an individual's body N (or O2) content. Not sure if even that type computer should eliminate tables. One always must keep in mind with a computer that it tells you the theoretical bottom time left--no real margin for error, unlike tables' square profiles. The computer fails--you use your backup one (if you have the means to buy a backup). Or you use your SPG, watch, and max depth. I guess either way works OK. But somehow, knowing that the max NDL on Air for 70 feet is 40 minutes to me is like knowing how to read a map. I don't know what would convince me to change my mind on that. This is a long thread on tables vs. computers, and IMO, they both are and always will be important. Computers are a great asset for multi-level diving--who wants to calculate their entire dive at 100' when they've been down there 5 minutes? Embrace the past and present as they both exist for our safety.
I just get a feeling that divers who only know dive computers may be like drivers who rely completely on the GPS, can't read a map and really have no idea of where they are. Side note: I'm amazed there are people in that situation.
The GPS has it's place. In a city you don't know, with one way streets, to a specific hard to get to address. As a native New Yorker on a trip through there, I disregarded the GPS (just on for the fun of it), because I knew it would take me into chaos). But maps can be wrong too, if poorly written or out of date.
Dive and decompression theory is the same whether you use tables or a computer, so students get the knowledge. We all know computers are based on tables and are theoretical anyway--at least until they can actually measure an individual's body N (or O2) content. Not sure if even that type computer should eliminate tables. One always must keep in mind with a computer that it tells you the theoretical bottom time left--no real margin for error, unlike tables' square profiles. The computer fails--you use your backup one (if you have the means to buy a backup). Or you use your SPG, watch, and max depth. I guess either way works OK. But somehow, knowing that the max NDL on Air for 70 feet is 40 minutes to me is like knowing how to read a map. I don't know what would convince me to change my mind on that. This is a long thread on tables vs. computers, and IMO, they both are and always will be important. Computers are a great asset for multi-level diving--who wants to calculate their entire dive at 100' when they've been down there 5 minutes? Embrace the past and present as they both exist for our safety.
I thought I would respond to questions asked several days ago regarding saving instructional time by not teaching tables. With PADI, the time teaching tables is replaced by time teaching computers. I have not ever taught the computer version of the PADI class, but I have scanned the outline. There is a lot of information about computers and how they are used in it. I suspect the amount of time would be a wash. The computer version might even be longer.
The idea that not teaching tables simply removes something from the curriculum is silly. You have to teach students how to deal with decompression one way or another.
The idea that not teaching tables simply removes something from the curriculum is silly. You have to teach students how to deal with decompression one way or another.
cocoajoe
Contributor
I didn't go thru all 115 pgs of this thread so, I might have missed it. Are students still being taught tables? And do they still get RDPs in their student materials/crew pack?
Students can be taught how to use the RDP, eRDPml, or Dive Computers. Crew Packs are ordered by the shop (or instructor) in what ever combination of materials the shop (or instructor) wants to provede. Our crew packs are supplied with "How to Choose and Use Dive Computers".
bilsant
Contributor
Tables also help illustrate the underlying reasoning for why we plan dive profiles within safety limits.
The idea of dispensing with dive tables for scuba training because students will probably have computers is like an elementary school dispensing with teaching multiplication and long division because everyone will have a pocket calculator in the real world.
We had dive tables out today to check our plans on the Vandenberg. I don't use them for every dive, but they live in my bag for when I need them. I've saved at least two dives where I arrived to find my computer was not functioning, dug out the tables and probably spent less time in the water than my computer would have allowed, but still got in a pretty good dive.
That being said, I would DEARLY love to attend a dive computer class with a segment devoted to my specific model of computer. I do OK as it is, but am certain I'm not wringing every bit of utility from it. Are any training coordinators listening?
The idea of dispensing with dive tables for scuba training because students will probably have computers is like an elementary school dispensing with teaching multiplication and long division because everyone will have a pocket calculator in the real world.
We had dive tables out today to check our plans on the Vandenberg. I don't use them for every dive, but they live in my bag for when I need them. I've saved at least two dives where I arrived to find my computer was not functioning, dug out the tables and probably spent less time in the water than my computer would have allowed, but still got in a pretty good dive.
That being said, I would DEARLY love to attend a dive computer class with a segment devoted to my specific model of computer. I do OK as it is, but am certain I'm not wringing every bit of utility from it. Are any training coordinators listening?
This is a link to Alberto/eDiver/DiveNav's online training program which is specific to each model of computer
Learn to use YOUR Dive Computer
Learn to use YOUR Dive Computer
Something I wasn't aware of when gobsmacked at some reactions was that some people are runnning ALL functions through their computer.Kinda hard to just dig out the tables I guess when your tank pressure reading is in the dead computer.
One of the interesting things that happens in a thread that is this long and this old is that people who have not read through the thread come in very late and repeat arguments that have been made over and over again in the hundreds or thousands of preceding posts.
These arguments, for example, have been introduced and dealt with many time before in this thread. I suggest you go through it and read through the previous examples to see why the underlying reason for dive profiles has nothing to do with tables and why the calculator example is a false analogy.
If over a thousand posts is too many to sift through, you can also use the Search Thread function at the top of the thread window, in the shaded line below the thread title and Likes count indicator. Try searching for "arithmetic" or "calculator." (You could even try to search for a misspelling, like "arithmatic" if you want to see the results of primary school education amongst some of our members! 
)
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