PADI v Diverlink

[Azza]

IIRC... it was this one

www.diverlink.com/wrap.php?file=newdiver/agencycomparison.htm

Thanks Jeff.

<edit> Nice article Walter. What was the intial court case about? I take it PADI took exception to somethings in the article but would you like to clarify this for us, or post a link somewhere that we can read about.</edit>

Cheers
Azza

 

[Otter]

You're right, but you can bet that if it WASN'T factual, they would have sued for that as well.

....Duh!

 

[JeffG]

Thanks Jeff.

<edit> Nice article Walter. What was the intial court case about? I take it PADI took exception to somethings in the article but would you like to clarify this for us, or post a link somewhere that we can read about.</edit>

Cheers
Azza

There used to be an entire forum dedicated to the lawsuit, but it seems to have vanished into the ether. It had a lot of the explanations and discussions about the reason and validity of the lawsuit.

 

[Azza]

There used to be an entire forum dedicated to the lawsuit, but it seems to have vanished into the ether. It had a lot of the explanations and discussions about the reason and validity of the lawsuit.

It seems the search button is my friend

http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=57616&page=1&pp=10&highlight=diverlink+padi

Is this the same thread you were thinking of?

 

[wb416]

On July 13, 2005, the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit ruled against PADI in it's appeal of the United States District Court for Central District of California's ruling in PADI's suit against Diverlink. It looks like this is finally over, PADI should now be paying Diverlink's legal expenses as ordered by the United States District Court for the Central District of California which were approximately $197,000 prior to the appeal. I have no idea how much they are at this point.

The suit was filed as a result of PADI's displeasure with an article published on the Diverlink website comparing the Open Water training standards of three certification agencies.

Congrats Walter... it's been a long time since this all began... glad it's reached a conclusion

bob

 

[JeffG]

It seems the search button is my friend

http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=57616&page=1&pp=10&highlight=diverlink+padi

Is this the same thread you were thinking of?

Kinda...check out post #7 thats where Net Doc mentions the entire forum that has gone by the wayside.

 

[Walter]

Kind of odd that you would post this Walt and the name of the guy who is quote in the descision as the responsible party's name is Walt.

your last name is Wilt is it?
I wouldn't be surprised if it was

First, my name isn't "Walt." I don't know why the court made that mistake. Next, I don't think it's odd at all. I received an e-mail from my attorney today telling me about the outcome of the suit. Yes, I did write the article, I'm quite proud of it.

 

[Azza]

Kinda...check out post #7 thats where Net Doc mentions the entire forum that has gone by the wayside.

Roger that.

Cheers

 

[RIDIVER501]

What difference does that make? He puts the truth out there for the world to see, Padi does the typical corporate thing by suing to shut him up, he fights back and wins...sounds like David and Goliath all over again to me. Good job, Walter. If the truth hurts so bad that Padi can't stand it, maybe they need to change their ways. It seems to me that this would be a more positive approach instead of suing people who point out discrepancies...

The difference if makes FF is that my experience with walter is he is a PADI bashing troll here on SB. Every time somebody tries to say something nice about PADI there is walter with an unkind word and lack of objectivity on the subject of PADI in any posts that he contributes too on this board. Without saying it his mantra seems to be PADI sucks. Nice mantra.

funny how the 3 agencies evaluated in his little article are on the two he is associated with at the instructor level and the one he despises the most. Oh and the one he despises the most he has not taught for.

Walter's back ground strait from the article for reference.

MY BACKGROUND
It has been suggested that my background with regard to agency affiliation is important information for the reader to help offset any bias I may bring into this study. Since my opinions are all contained in the analysis and conclusion sections, which are clearly labeled subjective, I do not feel this is necessary, but am happy to provide the information for those of you who disagree. My original Open Water certification was through PADI. Additional certifications were, in order: YMCA Open Water, YMCA Silver Star Advanced, YMCA SCUBA Lifesaving and Accident Management (SLAM), YMCA Dive Master, YMCA Assistant Instructor, YMCA Silver Star Instructor, YMCA SLAM Instructor, YMCA Coral Reef Ecology Instructor, CMAS Three Star Instructor, YMCA Wreck Instructor, YMCA Gold Star Instructor, YMCA Institute Director (Instructor Trainer), NAUI Nitrox Diver and YMCA Nitrox Instructor

I had no major problems in general with his article, there were some inaccruacies, until he presented his conculsion an analysis

IMO Walter's conlusions are suspect knowing his distaste for PADI and the fact the he hasn't taught for them. How is it possible to make viable conclusions with out direct knowldge of what you are concluding on?

The fact that SB staffers support this kind of behavior on the board is distressing. But in what I have seen on here in recent month it is expected. seems to be pleanty SB staffers out there with the same sentiments towards PADI as Walter, and not afraid to voice their opinions on the matter either.

ironic how people on this board fail to realize:
1. no one agency is the end all be all of diving.
2. every agency has their own share of problems.
3. every agency has their shares of instructor who are not doing the right thing by their students or the industry.
4. winning a court battle doesn't mean the winner is right or innoccent (look at OJ)
5. there are bad divers out there who hold cards from every agency out there.
6. many bad divers are a product of their own personal lack of diving and skill development and not a product of substandard instruction. (although it easier to and more politically correct to blame the agency and instructor for a divers shortcomings)

I am not saying PADI suing over this was the right thing to do but what do you think the other agencies would do if a similar article showed up on the web. Comparing them to fellow agencies with a negative spin towards their agency, and oh by the way the person who wrote the article had direct working knowledge of the agencies that were given good marks but wasn't affiliated at the teaching level with the agency that got slammed. I think they would look for some kind of corrective action as well.

I don't believe it is accurate to say that PADI sued to shut him up or to avoid the comparison. I would guess they sued him for making assumptions with no direct experience with PADI's Methodologies with the methodologies that he is inimately familar with from the other agencies. That is just my guess.

I would propose we all try to get along but my experience on this board proves that proposal futile.

 

[Firefyter]

The difference if makes FF is that my experience with walter is he is a PADI bashing troll here on SB. Every time somebody tries to say something nice about PADI there is walter with an unkind word and lack of objectivity on the subject of PADI in any posts that he contributes too on this board. Without saying it his mantra seems to be PADI sucks. Nice mantra.

I don't think I'd call him a troll....he doesn't care for Padi's standards, and doesn't mind saying so. Vocal, maybe, but he's not starting the threads, just responding to them. Maybe you'd prefer a warm, fuzzy thread where everybody dotes on Padi and extolls their virtues, but that isn't ever going to happen.

funny how the 3 agencies evaluated in his little article are on the two he is associated with at the instructor level and the one he despises the most. Oh and the one he despises the most he has not taught for.

I only see him associated at the instructor level with 1 of the agencies. He took a class from Naui, but he's not an instructor for them. Looks like that theory's shot. And as for not teaching for Padi, it's evident he doesn't like their program, so why WOULD he teach for them?

I had no major problems in general with his article, there were some inaccruacies, until he presented his conculsion an analysis

IMO Walter's conlusions are suspect knowing his distaste for PADI and the fact the he hasn't taught for them. How is it possible to make viable conclusions with out direct knowldge of what you are concluding on?

He made his conclusions based on their standards. If you can read their standards and understand them, you are able to make comparisons with other agencies, which is what he did.

The fact that SB staffers support this kind of behavior on the board is distressing. But in what I have seen on here in recent month it is expected. seems to be pleanty SB staffers out there with the same sentiments towards PADI as Walter, and not afraid to voice their opinions on the matter either.

They're not neccesarily supporting it, there are lots of staffers who are Padi trained. It's just that they respect the fact that we all have opinions and they allow us to present them as long as we follow the TOS.

ironic how people on this board fail to realize:
1. no one agency is the end all be all of diving.
2. every agency has their own share of problems.
3. every agency has their shares of instructor who are not doing the right thing by their students or the industry.
4. winning a court battle doesn't mean the winner is right or innoccent (look at OJ)
5. there are bad divers out there who hold cards from every agency out there.
6. many bad divers are a product of their own personal lack of diving and skill development and not a product of substandard instruction. (although it easier to and more politically correct to blame the agency and instructor for a divers shortcomings).

I agree with most of this. However, as to #4, Walter didn't just win once, he won TWICE. I'd have to say in this case that he was right.

I am not saying PADI suing over this was the right thing to do but what do you think the other agencies would do if a similar article showed up on the web. Comparing them to fellow agencies with a negative spin towards their agency, and oh by the way the person who wrote the article had direct working knowledge of the agencies that were given good marks but wasn't affiliated at the teaching level with the agency that got slammed. I think they would look for some kind of corrective action as well.

It wasn't the right thing to do. The right thing to do would be to address shortcomings in an organization rather than trying to shoot the messenger. As I said before, if the truth hurts so bad that you can't stand it, maybe you need to change your ways.

I don't believe it is accurate to say that PADI sued to shut him up or to avoid the comparison. I would guess they sued him for making assumptions with no direct experience with PADI's Methodologies with the methodologies that he is inimately familar with from the other agencies. That is just my guess.

It's totally accurate. They didn't like the comparison being made in the light of day where everybody could read it, and sued to make it go away. I say again, if they could have proved it to be false, they would have sued for that too.

I would propose we all try to get along but my experience on this board proves that proposal futile

I thought we were getting along, but that doesn't mean we all have to agree. It just means we have to disagree nicely