Point-for-point on what's missing from OW Classes

[TwoBitTxn]

Two points. Both being argued from experience. Both, from the arguers perspective, are correct.

And i am not saying this to attack overweight or smoking people. But they dont belong in the water IMHO. If someone that is overweight and or smokes manages to be in topcondition by rigorous training, fine, but if they are not they are a liability. And if you are a non-smoker and have a perfect body, great, but only if you are in good shape. The underwaterworld is unforgiving and dangerous.

So would you have us go back to the days where only super fit military style men dove and the rest sat in fear of the water or unable to dive because they couldn't pass the physical aspect of training?

TwoBit

 

[DiverBuoy]

JBD What exactly is Mike Ferrara adding that PADI doesn't already cover when the class is taught properly? Not to imply he isn't doing a good job, just need clarification about what is being added. Certainly it doesn't take 10 minutes to tell students they don't have to put all their weight on their weight belt ... or that some may find it more comfortable to position their tank higher in the strap?

Basically, I have to admit I made the assumption that he was pretty much packing PPB into OW? PPB principles and foundation are definitely laid in the OW course (just check your manual) - perfecting them is PPB.

 

[detroit diver]

DiverBuoy once bubbled...
JBD What exactly is Mike Ferrara adding that PADI doesn't already cover when the class is taught properly? Not to imply he isn't doing a good job, just need clarification about what is being added. Certainly it doesn't take 10 minutes to tell students they don't have to put all their weight on their weight belt ... or that some may find it more comfortable to position their tank higher in the strap?

Basically, I have to admit I made the assumption that he was pretty much packing PPB into OW? PPB principles and foundation are definitely laid in the OW course (just check your manual) - perfecting them is PPB.

And that's part of the problem. Sell another course to make more money. What should happen is that the course should be priced so that ALL of this information and practice is part of the training. It is basic scuba diving, period. The weekend class BS and crank 'em out mentality shows up with new divers. Why don't you just spend another week or so with the divers and show them how to DO IT RIGHT instead of charging them for a "peak performancy bouyancy class"? Yeh, I invoked DIR for a reason. It's nothing more than a basic open water scuba class that teaches what should have been taught in BOW PADI, NAUI, etc.

As previously said, the BOW has been watered down so far to generate numbers-the lowest common denominator factor. Where do these students practice their trim and bouyancy-on top of a reef???

 

[DiverBuoy]

The other option is to teach a 4 weekend course (considering a limit of 3 dives per day and that most people work weekdays and you can't teach beginners at night).

I have to completely disagree with this viewpoint. The real issue is that students can only grasp so much at once, they build on previous understandings, and above all they must be given TIME to practice and let things sink in.

The modular approach of PADI is only partly about money. It's also about time. Modern folks are busy, life is fast paced, when "doctors", "attorneys", "chemists", and "software engineers" walk into my classroom I respect their time as much as they do mine. Instructors deserve to get paid for their time - and not less than McDonald's wages either. So there is no misunderstanding about this I remind them that I am also an engineer and a manager in my day job.

The modular approach is superior in our modern age. I defend it vehemently - not because I've been told to, or because I was dogmatically programmed, or because I'm duped, but because I put it into practice and I know from experience it works.

You see in all educational systems you create building blocks, once principles are grasped you can add more which can only be understood if the prerequisites are already in place.

 

[detroit diver]

Then extend the course and charge more. I absolutely agree that dive instructors are paid garbage. I also think that there are too many dive shops competing for too few divers. Thus the the $99 instruction specials.

Price quality education where is should be priced, and give the student the skills that he/she needs to receive. If they want to dive, they will find a way to make time for what is required of them. But it's got to come from the top brass at PADI, NAUI, etc. Dont expect the shops to do this by themselves.

 

[MikeFerrara]

DiverBuoy once bubbled...
And to position their body horizontally in the water to stay off the bottom and avoid damaging aquatic life, the reef, or harming themselves.

That's what trim is!

My students aren't task loaded in fact it goes much easier for them because their weights are in the right place and they don't have to fight to maintain a horizontal position.

Let's go on to a couple more shall we?

Fin technique.....
With all the head up foot down divers using nothing but a huge sweeping flutter kick it's no wonder we can't see anything at our local divesites when other divers are present. They silt things to the point of near zero vis from 10 feet off the bottom (not to mention the silt out you'll get if someone tries to turn around). Being horizontal combined with better finning technique (kicks that don't force water downward) solves the problem. Even new diver like and even need to see.

Ascents and descents....
I can't help but notice how many divers get seperated during an ascent or descent. Everyone drops to the bottom and then looks for each other. I also have noticed that ascents and descents are among the most likely times for a diver to have a problem (not in the book but true). One diver may have trouble equalizing and stop or even ascend while the other diver continues to the bottom. I have seen divers have free flows and ascend while their buddy continues on to the bottom. The result is two divers who are alone and one with a problem. Watching divers start a dive at France park in the summer when the vis isn't so good or at night is funny. The'll drop and come up several times before they manage to find each other on the bottom and start the dive. The book doesn't say anything about staying together or watching your buddy while descending. There also is no performance requirement that teams stay together.

Buddy skills....
In fact there are no buddy system related skills included in the class beyond learning a few hand signals.

 

[DiverBuoy]

detroit diver once bubbled...
Then extend the course and charge more. I absolutely agree that dive instructors are paid garbage. I also think that there are too many dive shops competing for too few divers. Thus the the $99 instruction specials.

Price quality education where is should be priced, and give the student the skills that he/she needs to receive. If they want to dive, they will find a way to make time for what is required of them. But it's got to come from the top brass at PADI, NAUI, etc. Dont expect the shops to do this by themselves.

Detroit Diver, students don't have that time - at least not here in Southern California (And I wouldn't think in the Motor City either). They get a c-card - something they can hold in their hand. If you extend the course, increase the price, you lengthen the period in which modern interruptions can kill the potential for a student to complete this segment. 2 weeks is barely possible to escape the bullets of modern peoples personal and professional lives. You can't make it any longer. As it is we still have to offer 1 week courses every now and again. Students don't even realize how much harder they are making it on themselves to take a 1 week course. (To say nothing of the pain on the instructor!)

Doh - Mike Ferrara that's covered in the OW class materials dude! May I ask if any of your students ever take a take PPB class?

 

[MikeFerrara]

DiverBuoy once bubbled...



Doh - Mike Ferrara that's covered in the OW class materials dude! May I ask if any of your students ever take a take PPB class?

What is? and where?

 

[jbd]

was added to my AOW. It was with out a doubt the most productive class I had taken to that point. Now as an instructor, it is my firm conviction that whats in that course and the ability to be trimmed and in full highly refined control of bouyancy is the key to dive safety and injury prevention. Why wait for some other time to teach that to the students? Why let them get in the water with less than they need to provide them with their best method of reducing the risk level in diving?

My classes both independent and through the shop are six sessions minimum. The goal for my current class is that pool session 6 will be 2 hours in the water without ever touching the bottom or breaking the surface once we descend. For a large part of this time they will be picking up objects off the bottom using only breath control and hovering.

 

[sheck33]

TwoBitTxn once bubbled...
Two points. Both being argued from experience. Both, from the arguers perspective, are correct.



So would you have us go back to the days where only super fit military style men dove and the rest sat in fear of the water or unable to dive because they couldn't pass the physical aspect of training?

TwoBit

No, not the superfit. When i started diving that was the idea, back then the 3* CMAS diving certificate was an excercise in stamina and had little to do with diveskills. But what i see today is the other extreme, people that are in such poor physical condition that walking to the water completely exhausts them should not be diving IMHO. I am no Navyseal but in a lot better shape than most i see in the classes i help out with.