Problems diving with other dive buddies

[geoff w]

The general rule of thumb is to turn and head back when someone in the group uses between 1/3 and 1/2 tank, depending on the plan and conditions, assuming being cold or running up against NDL times don't cause a return sooner. Sometimes it's the person leading the dive; same rules apply. When we do group dives and I lead, we have everything from 80s to 130s, and when someone gets to half we start to turn around. This is for generally shallow (no deeper than 45 ft) shore dives, but the same rules apply. I'm almost always the one with the smallest tank (HP80), but depending on who is doing what, we start to turn back when someone gets to half a tank. We're lucky, because worse case scenario is to safely surface with a long surface swim and/or kelp crawl back to the beach, but the dive has to be pretty spectacular to apply that option

When I'm leading unfamiliar buddies, I'm always extra conservative, not knowing what kind of stupid things the are capable of as their air gets low

 

[LarryHinDC]

Call the dive when you are low on air, no question. But I gotta ask: you were guiding a dive (something you aren't used to) AND taking pictures??? How does that work?

 

[scagrotto]

On the topic of people misunderstanding your gauge

I've seen gauges that have a yellow zone before reaching red, and I've seen 3000 psi gauges with red starting at 1000. Those colors are useful for getting your attention, but it's the numbers/pressure for the tank that diver is using that matter.

the pressure at which the dive is called, based mostly on what it would take to get back to the entry point, is always to be agreed on before the dive

Maybe it's not what you meant, but the way I read that you're suggesting that there's one number to be agreed upon. If everybody's diving the same tanks and they're all filled to about the same pressure that's all well and good, but different tanks would have different numbers. If I had a 3500 psi steel 80 and you had a 2640 psi steel 80 we'd both start with the same amount of air (+/- 2.5%). Turning on thirds would have me turning at 2335, where you still have almost 90% of what you started with at 2235.

It seems to me that the agreement would to turn when the first person gets to some percentage of pressure, and each diver needs to monitor their gauge and know the pressure at which they're the one who thumbs the dive. That can obviously be discussed before the dive, but there may be more than one number. You may be willing to head back when I thumb the dive because I see that you're down to 65% of my turning pressure, but we're both going to be unhappy when a discussion after the dive reveals that I confused your number and mine.

QUOTE=LarryHinDC;7139819]you were guiding a dive (something you aren't used to) AND taking pictures??? How does that work?[/QUOTE]

Sounds to me like he was just showing them the sights, and not babysitting.

 

[ozzydamo]

I'm posting this to see if others face the same problems I do, and would like to hear suggestions of how you would deal with it.

I prefer self-dives with my buddy over following a guide or diving with unfamiliar buddies (who may be good friends in life). When I dive with my regular buddy, both of us have no problems thumbing the dive at any time without any bad feelings. Or rather, we know each other so well we don't really care if our buddy feels bad.

This past week, I was called on to guide a dive as I had dived there many times and knew where to find the critters. During the dive, we spotted some rare critters and I guess I got really excited and gulped a lot of air taking photos. Before long, I had only 60bar left.

I asked my buddy and he had 100bars left. Being the guide, I felt really bad that I had to cut short the dive. So I signalled to go shallower to try to last longer.
Because of feeling bad for my buddy in cutting short his dive, I tried to stay down as long as possible. Sad to say, I cut it a little close. I surfaced with only 20bar left.

I have encountered this problem several times in the past. Sometimes, I thumb the dive and the dive guide will say to wait and swim a little more, and I will start feeling uncomfortable.

Does anyone else face problems like this, and how do you deal with it?

It's hard to guide a dive and take photo's too- especially if your intensive and are shooting the critters, not the other divers- who are meant to be getting shown the sights, not showing them how you take photos of the critters. It's a piss poor effort, they deserve to be disappointed, you let them down and they probably paid good money to do the dive.

As for the 20bar that's still a lot of air to breath as at that pressure(20bar) 1bar is a greater amount then when the tank was full (207/235bar), also you have come into the shallower depth- so no huge deal there. But maybe you need a large tank and need to just relax to slow down on your air.

I have sucked a tank dry, once but I did it deliberately for practice to know what happens/how it feels(same as slowly shut down your valve on the tank)- I was immediately under my boat at the time.

I prefer to dive solo when taking photo's it's much better results and you can take as long or as little as you want(as your air allows).

---------- Post added June 8th, 2014 at 12:49 AM ----------

I've seen gauges that have a yellow zone before reaching red, and I've seen 3000 psi gauges with red starting at 1000. Those colors are useful for getting your attention, but it's the numbers/pressure for the tank that diver is using that matter.



Maybe it's not what you meant, but the way I read that you're suggesting that there's one number to be agreed upon. If everybody's diving the same tanks and they're all filled to about the same pressure that's all well and good, but different tanks would have different numbers. If I had a 3500 psi steel 80 and you had a 2640 psi steel 80 we'd both start with the same amount of air (+/- 2.5%). Turning on thirds would have me turning at 2335, where you still have almost 90% of what you started with at 2235.

It seems to me that the agreement would to turn when the first person gets to some percentage of pressure, and each diver needs to monitor their gauge and know the pressure at which they're the one who thumbs the dive. That can obviously be discussed before the dive, but there may be more than one number. You may be willing to head back when I thumb the dive because I see that you're down to 65% of my turning pressure, but we're both going to be unhappy when a discussion after the dive reveals that I confused your number and mine.

QUOTE=LarryHinDC;7139819]you were guiding a dive (something you aren't used to) AND taking pictures??? How does that work?

I find it strange you use PSI and CFT for your air volume and pressure- but then you want to use percentile instead of fractions, how IRONIC! lol

 

[ShootingUnderwater.com]

I feel similar to others who've responded, in that, I never feel bad when someone calls a dive. You have several scenarios going on so I have opinions that run a short gamut.

When you're diving remote areas, guides can be a valuable resource. I've had excellent guides who don't mind floating above us while we shoot pictures and hardly move around to guides who believe diving as fast as they can so you "see" more is the way to go. NOT.
More than once, I've followed a guide at the beginning of a dive to end up saying - STOP! I'm not doing that or I'm not going that way. If they seem to ignore my signals, I check my compass to get my bearings and dive my own pace. If a guide told me to wait, and I am low on air or short on bottom time, I no longer care what he/she prefers. I care about my own safety and dive my own limitations.

In a situation when you don't know your dive buddy very well, it's good to discuss your dive styles before you submerge. The two of you should understand your limitations and show each other your hand signals. My buddy knows to tell me he's out of air and is okay with my not accompanying him out of the water. I have a friend who's relatively new at diving and photography so we discuss things prior to a dive and while I watch out for him, he knows if we're in a calm, safe area, I'll watch him surface and continue my dive.

If you are the guide, why are you taking pictures? If the people you're leading are all photographers, have an agreement with them about you carrying a camera. If they are okay with that, then don't feel bad about leaving them a little early. If you're pointing out subjects for them to shoot, you should point out the critter and stay slightly above them to reserve more air/bottom time. I'm not sure having a camera with you and being a guide are a safe combination. If it was/is just the two of you and you're leading the dive, you did the right thing.

~ R