Question about equipment timeline

[kgallowaypa]

I have a few questions regarding an article on GUE’s website for DIR equipment. I know some of these questions might be more basic than others but I am trying to figure out what my equipment list for shopping should be and what would benefit me first in my buying timeline. Here is a list of what I currently dive with and my diving situations:

Diving environment:
Miami, Florida
Salt Water with warm temperatures
Wreck diving no deeper than 100ft
Average SAC rate: 0.85ci/Min
Average dive times: 45 minutes
Average times: Morning-Afternoon dives
Method of Access: 2004 27’ Grady White
Number of Dives: 33
Certification: SSI Open Water

Current Equipment:
Mares Syncro tech BC
Aqualung Titan LX
(3) Catalina AL80 cylinders (air)
3mm full wetsuit
Weight belt
Atomic Split fins
Low-Profile mask
Stainless Steel Dive tool

---------------------------------------------------
I currently dive with a single tank setup on a jacket BCD with no dive computer, just tables and planning. DIR appeals to me and seems in-line with how I want to dive. This is the equipment setup I am looking to purchase with 1 being the first and in descending order. I am not rich but I don’t mind spending money on good quality gear that I can grow with and supplement my learning experience.

1.) Shearwater Petrel
2.) Dive Light (main backup DIR) (unknown brand/model)
3.) Suunto Wrist Compass
4.) Scubapro jet fins
5.) Advanced Open Water PADI
6.) Scubapro Mk25
7.) Halcyon Explorer BC
8.) Similar quality but low-performance regulator for backup (performance as in diaphragm vs piston)
9.) Doubles Manifold (unknown brand/model)
10.) Goodman Light w/ Canister (unknown brand/model)


There are plenty of wrecks off Miami and the Keys in the 100-150 range I want to explore so this is my interest in doubles and streamlined setup. My long-term goal is to get full wreck penetration certified but I want to start with equipment I can lay a good foundation with until I am ready to take the steps to get there. Cave diving doesn’t interest me at this time albeit being a few hours away from some great locations in North Florida.
What I have questions about:
A. Is my purchasing timeline appropriate? Should some equipment I am looking at be changed? (I chose the petrel at the top of my list because I want a computer I can grow with in regards to supplementing practical knowledge of deco and dive planning, I also like the feature of logging my dives and viewing statistics on a desktop application such as DivingLog)

B. When diving in the ocean with doubles and wetsuit, the article mentioned a doubles setup with twin aluminum 80’s as the weight of the combined tanks and setup will offset the positive buoyancy. I was always under the impression that steel HP80’s would be more beneficial but considering my location, should I stick with my current cylinders or get the twin steel HP60/80 for doubles?

C. The halcyon Explorer seems extremely expensive for what it is worth. Although price is a minimal factor because I don’t mind spending money on quality gear, would it just be better to get a SS BP with harness from halcyon and maybe a similar quality wing for a doubles configuration?
　
Thanks for your guys’ help!

 

[Mike.D]

I have a few questions regarding an article on GUE’s website for DIR equipment. I know some of these questions might be more basic than others but I am trying to figure out what my equipment list for shopping should be and what would benefit me first in my buying timeline. Here is a list of what I currently dive with and my diving situations:

Diving environment:
Miami, Florida
Salt Water with warm temperatures
Wreck diving no deeper than 100ft
Average SAC rate: 0.85ci/Min
Average dive times: 45 minutes
Average times: Morning-Afternoon dives
Method of Access: 2004 27’ Grady White
Number of Dives: 33
Certification: SSI Open Water

Current Equipment:
Mares Syncro tech BC
Aqualung Titan LX
(3) Catalina AL80 cylinders (air)
3mm full wetsuit
Weight belt
Atomic Split fins
Low-Profile mask
Stainless Steel Dive tool

---------------------------------------------------
I currently dive with a single tank setup on a jacket BCD with no dive computer, just tables and planning. DIR appeals to me and seems in-line with how I want to dive. This is the equipment setup I am looking to purchase with 1 being the first and in descending order. I am not rich but I don’t mind spending money on good quality gear that I can grow with and supplement my learning experience.

1.) Shearwater Petrel
2.) Dive Light (main backup DIR) (unknown brand/model)
3.) Suunto Wrist Compass
4.) Scubapro jet fins
5.) Advanced Open Water PADI
6.) Scubapro Mk25
7.) Halcyon Explorer BC
8.) Similar quality but low-performance regulator for backup (not sure which)
9.) Doubles Manifold (unknown brand/model)
10.) Goodman Light w/ Canister (unknown brand/model)


There are plenty of wrecks off Miami and the Keys in the 100-150 range I want to explore so this is my interest in doubles and streamlined setup. My long-term goal is to get full wreck penetration certified but I want to start with equipment I can lay a good foundation with until I am ready to take the steps to get there. Cave diving doesn’t interest me at this time albeit being a few hours away from some great locations in North Florida.
What I have questions about:
A. Is my purchasing timeline appropriate? Should some equipment I am looking at be changed? (I chose the petrel at the top of my list because I want a computer I can grow with in regards to supplementing practical knowledge of deco and dive planning, I also like the feature of logging my dives and viewing statistics on a desktop application such as DivingLog)

B. When diving in the ocean with doubles and wetsuit, the article mentioned a doubles setup with twin aluminum 80’s as the weight of the combined tanks and setup will offset the positive buoyancy. I was always under the impression that steel HP80’s would be more beneficial but considering my location, should I stick with my current cylinders or get the twin steel HP60/80 for doubles?

C. The halcyon Explorer seems extremely expensive for what it is worth. Although price is a minimal factor because I don’t mind spending money on quality gear, would it just be better to get a SS BP with harness from halcyon and maybe a similar quality wing for a doubles configuration?
　
Thanks for your guys’ help!

Why forgo the performance if your backup regulator that YOU will be using in an emergency for a few $$$? If you hunt around you can find excellent quality 2nd Stage regs for a fraction of their retail price. Nothing wrong with buying 2nd hand gear.
Cheers

Mike


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Imla]

1.) Shearwater Petrel
2.) Dive Light (main backup DIR) (unknown brand/model)
3.) Suunto Wrist Compass
4.) Scubapro jet fins
5.) Advanced Open Water PADI
6.) Scubapro Mk25
7.) Halcyon Explorer BC
8.) Similar quality but low-performance regulator for backup (not sure which)
9.) Doubles Manifold (unknown brand/model)
10.) Goodman Light w/ Canister (unknown brand/model)

Personally I would change your order a bit.
1.) Compass. (Takes time to learn, and get proficient with...)
2.) Jet Fins.
3.) Dive light (Get a good 3cell back-up light. It will work for a starter, and will take its place as a backup when you get your cannister)
4.) AOW (Nav, Night, Deep, PPB and wreck/Nitrox) (And maybe GUE Fundies or similar from other agency?)
5.) 1st/2nd Stages. Get good quality, good performance. (Esp: your backup...)
6.) BPW Any standard BP and Harness will do. Halcyon wings are know for good quality and endurance. (I love mine... )
* If you don't have it: Insert SMB and spool here....
7.) Cannister Light.
8.) Petrel


My choices er of course coloured by the diving I do. (cold water, always doubles and GUE)
However, my reasoning is: A compass should be one of the first things you buy, and learn to use. Get used to it, get familiar with it and become its friend . I also transitioned from splits to jets. I love my jets and hated the splits. Having basics in place first.
You are most likely going to need a light for when you do your AOW, hence the placing for that one. I took the liberty of suggesting a few smart choices for the AOW
Keep in mind that if you want to dive deeper, you also put more strain on your gear. Risk increases and when things go south, your breathing also increases. In other words. Deep down, in a stressful situation is not where you want to find out you went with "backup el-cheapo"
My reasoning for putting lighting before the petrel comes from diving avg depths and time as taught in GUE-F. As long as I dont do more than 2 dives a day, I really have no need for a computer. (And I do own a petrel... (And I love it, so it is a good choice) ) I would chose a good cannisterlight over a computer any day. since you already are proficient in diving with tables, Id put this further down my list

But... This is _my_ reasoning... and it is obviously coloured by the agency I have had my training with. Others might not agree

 

[kgallowaypa]

Why forgo the performance if your backup regulator that YOU will be using in an emergency for a few $$$? If you hunt around you can find excellent quality 2nd Stage regs for a fraction of their retail price. Nothing wrong with buying 2nd hand gear.
Cheers

Mike


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well what I meant was referring to the GUE article, heres the quote from their site:

Many divers prefer a high-performance, balanced, second stage as their primary regulator, and a slightly lower performance, unbalanced, second stage as their backup.6 This proven configuration gives a diver the best of both worlds. Stage bottle regulators are used to extend bottom time; so many divers prefer to use a similar regulator to that used as a primary. However, stage and deco first stages are more likely to be flooded with water, making piston-style regulators a common favorite.7 Argon bottle regulators should be robust in design and function well at a low intermediate pressure.

just trying to follow that logic of regulator air performances, not quality of the regulator itself

---------- Post added May 1st, 2014 at 08:58 PM ----------

Excellent information Imla! that lineup looks more suited to what I can work with. As for the accessories such as guide reel and SMB, I factored them in but didnt include them in the list because of the inexpensiveness, I would most likely get those once I have my BP/W configuration set up and can add equipment as needed.

 

[TSandM]

Some of the recommendations on the website are rather dated. A lot of us like to dive with the same second stages on all our regs, so everything is interchangeable and service is simplified.

I would have a different order from Imla. I'd change fins first, then go with the backplate. With a single tank regulator set up with a long hose and bungied backup, and a backplate and non-split fins, you can begin to develop the stable platform that you will need for the deeper dives, and especially for any kind of penetration diving. I'm assuming you have some kind of depth gauge and timing device now, and you can use those with tables as you (I assume) have been doing. DIR doesn't encourage the use of technical diving computers, and if you eventually want one, that's up to you, but you can get through all the training without one, and they are expensive if you are trying to budget gear acquisition.

The next addition I'd make is a good primary light. I'd hold off on it until you have the backplate, because canisters are very difficult to mount on other BCs. Now, if you want a hand-held light, you can do that at any point, but if you are going to do penetration diving, I suspect you'll end up with a canister eventually anyway.

As far as regulators go, you have a good one, and as long as you are in a single tank, there is no real need to replace it. When you go to doubles, you will need at least one more first stage, but many people (myself among them) find it handy to own a single tank setup AND a doubles setup, so it's an "addition to" rather than a replacement. You may well choose to buy the SP MK25/S600s, but they are very expensive (particularly new) and expensive to service. If you're stuck on them, send me a PM -- I have some I've been intending to list for sale and haven't gotten around to it.

I didn't go look at the details of the Halcyon Explorer. You only need a backplate, web harness, and wing -- padding and other additions add to the cost and add little to the functionality. Look at other brands. Halcyon is a good one, but there are others, and some are considerably less expensive. When budget is important, you have to do your shopping.

 

[PfcAJ]

I have a few questions regarding an article on GUE’s website for DIR equipment. I know some of these questions might be more basic than others but I am trying to figure out what my equipment list for shopping should be and what would benefit me first in my buying timeline. Here is a list of what I currently dive with and my diving situations:

Diving environment:
Miami, Florida
Salt Water with warm temperatures
Wreck diving no deeper than 100ft
Average SAC rate: 0.85ci/Min
Average dive times: 45 minutes
Average times: Morning-Afternoon dives
Method of Access: 2004 27’ Grady White
Number of Dives: 33
Certification: SSI Open Water

Current Equipment:
Mares Syncro tech BC
Aqualung Titan LX
(3) Catalina AL80 cylinders (air)
3mm full wetsuit
Weight belt
Atomic Split fins
Low-Profile mask
Stainless Steel Dive tool

---------------------------------------------------
I currently dive with a single tank setup on a jacket BCD with no dive computer, just tables and planning. DIR appeals to me and seems in-line with how I want to dive. This is the equipment setup I am looking to purchase with 1 being the first and in descending order. I am not rich but I don’t mind spending money on good quality gear that I can grow with and supplement my learning experience.

1.) Shearwater Petrel
2.) Dive Light (main backup DIR) (unknown brand/model)
3.) Suunto Wrist Compass
4.) Scubapro jet fins
5.) Advanced Open Water PADI
6.) Scubapro Mk25
7.) Halcyon Explorer BC
8.) Similar quality but low-performance regulator for backup (performance as in diaphragm vs piston)
9.) Doubles Manifold (unknown brand/model)
10.) Goodman Light w/ Canister (unknown brand/model)


There are plenty of wrecks off Miami and the Keys in the 100-150 range I want to explore so this is my interest in doubles and streamlined setup. My long-term goal is to get full wreck penetration certified but I want to start with equipment I can lay a good foundation with until I am ready to take the steps to get there. Cave diving doesn’t interest me at this time albeit being a few hours away from some great locations in North Florida.
What I have questions about:
A. Is my purchasing timeline appropriate? Should some equipment I am looking at be changed? (I chose the petrel at the top of my list because I want a computer I can grow with in regards to supplementing practical knowledge of deco and dive planning, I also like the feature of logging my dives and viewing statistics on a desktop application such as DivingLog)

B. When diving in the ocean with doubles and wetsuit, the article mentioned a doubles setup with twin aluminum 80’s as the weight of the combined tanks and setup will offset the positive buoyancy. I was always under the impression that steel HP80’s would be more beneficial but considering my location, should I stick with my current cylinders or get the twin steel HP60/80 for doubles?

C. The halcyon Explorer seems extremely expensive for what it is worth. Although price is a minimal factor because I don’t mind spending money on quality gear, would it just be better to get a SS BP with harness from halcyon and maybe a similar quality wing for a doubles configuration?
　
Thanks for your guys’ help!

I think a fancy dive computer is a waste of money and it would be better spent on a)diving and b) gear you really need, and c) training. Mostly diving and training. Get a cheap Uwatec puck or a tech 2g. It's got a fancy log thing too. Upgrade later when you know what you want. You might be surprised.

I would also reorder your purchases a bit.

The biggest change is the backplate/wing. You can still use your current regulator with your backplate and get used to diving it, fiddle with trim, the harness, all those things. I don't recommend moving to doubles right off the bat. If I were in your position (and I recall a time where I was), I'd find a used Halcyon stainless plate/harness and a used Eclipse wing + STA. If you're patient, you can acquire those items for dirt cheap prices.

Next would be flippers. Sell those splits and score some used jets off fleabay. Sell that BC too! Somewhere around this time, put your primary on a long hose, octo on a necklace, ditch the long SPG hose and put it on a 24''. Also score a compass.

Great. Now you're configured for a DIR class. Go take Fundies. Let those guys teach you the right way to use the gear. Don't worry about lights and all that business. Also, go dive your face off. Seriously. Dive. Fundies and actually going diving are HUGE.

Ok, now you've taken fundies, you got a rec pass, you figured out how to DIR. Now its time to consider the doubles.

For wetsuit diving, double al80s can't be beat. Skip over the steels. Too heavy. You can score a used set for 300-400 bucks, especially down where you live. Le cheap. Also, you need a wing. I bought a 55lb Explorer for ONE HUNDRED DOLLARS a few months ago. That's nearly free. It was in excellent shape too. You can do the same! I suggest a 40lb wing. Acquire another 1st stage (once again, eBay it. I just bought a Scubapro mk16 DIN for 38 dollars.) Dive your face off some more. Btw, you're on the money in regards to an unbalanced SECOND stage for your back up.

Buy 2 scout lights. The new XP scout is the ****. Buy them whenever you want. Next up is a can light. I just bought a Halcyon 9/18 for 425 buckaroos along with a buddy for a project. You can't beat that with a stick.

Great, you've got all your stuff. Dive your face off some more, get your Tech pass (should be easy peasy by now), dive some more, and Tech 1 will be a piece of cake.

 

[chokolad]

What TSandM said. With couple additions:
1. Halcyon Explorer is old style horseshoe wing for doubles. Not many people dive it these days. If you want to buy doubles wing - try donut style. Halcyon makes one, called Evolve.
2. You should not be using doubles wing (explorer/evolve) with single cylinder. If you are planning to dive single tank in your future (and you most likely are, think about travel) you need singles wing. Halcyon makes one, it is called Eclipse.
3. There are other brands, DSS is a good one for example, though frankly unless money is really tight I suggest going with Halcyon.
4. Do not rush to do doubles diving. Get yourself really comfortable diving single tank first.

TL;DR: get Halcyon Eclipse 30lb for now and some kind of doubles wing when you get there. (For doubled ALU 80 Halcyon Evolve #40 is the bomb)

 

[mer]

Adding on to what TSandM and chokolad said:
I'd go with:
1. Jet fins
2. BP and singles wing (Halcyon Eclipse 30#), when you go doubles, you'll use same BP
2a. Use current reg, maybe with some hose changes
3. Gain experience and refinement in single tank before going to doubles
4. Put early budgeting money on training. I'm partial to GUE classes, but a quality, experienced instructor teaching a class that focuses on building and testing your buoyancy, trim, stability, propulsion, and situational awareness would also fit the bill. I'm sure others on this forum can make recommendations for various instructors who fit that description and have a proven track record.

The earlier you invest time on training in your dive career, the faster you'll see improvements and the more you'll enjoy your diving. The right gear will help speed improvement, but resist the temptation to trick out on lights, computers, and other accessories before investing in proper training.

Best,
Mer

 

[Imla]

And just for kicks... I have nothing against TSandMs timeline.. As I could have just as well typed up that one. Reasoning for putting compass and light before a new bcsystem are basically that they are (in my opinion) key elements that should be a part of any dive.

 

[rongoodman]

As for the fins, if you're diving in a 3mm wetsuit and a single tank, the Jets might be too heavy and try to put you feet down. The Dive Rite XTs or the OMS Slipstreams are stiff enough for the kicks you will be learning, but more neutral in the water. (I'm not sure if you can still find the Slipstreams--I'm glad I bought an extra pair!)