question about padi standards

[MikeFerrara]

There is no time requirement as others have said but lets look at it. We use home study. We assume students can read. Now, when the student is with me we check knowlege reviews take quizes ect. I also spend some time showing application for the material in the book. The book is very clear on the facts but I can give alot more info on when why and how to use the stuff and what it all really mean to the diver. I also try to give the student an idea of what is available in diving. I talk about everything from industry trends to conservation. It seems that the longer I teach and dive the more I have to say.

I am fully aware of how much time all the shops in our area spend in the pool. We are in the pool twice as long as the other shops. You learn to dive in the pool. The purpose of the open water dives is to gain experience applying what you learned in the pool. Very few divers are any good at all after 8 hours in the pool. Think back to your first OW dive. If you had a short stint in the pool I'll bet you or fellow students had a hell of a time on dive one. I like easy dive #1's. That means getting the kinks ironed out in the pool. It doesn't take that long to do the required skills in the pool but I like to have a a few hours to spend with the buoyancy control course and other games we play. The required skills are just to get you going. Once you get going and off the bottom you need time to practice and play. We spend a min of 12 hours in the water. IMO, more would be better yet. We spend 3 evening in the class room (8 - 9 hours total).

On open water days I try to get students to schedule enugh time to do extra dives. We can do three dives in a day. So..Three dives the first day. Two the second day and if all is well you get a card. Now since I am already there and all dressed up, I'll dive the rest of the day if you want.

We keep making the class longer. You can tell when you watch our students dive. We also keep raising the price. I find that the folks who want a fast cheap class do not want to learn to dive. They want a card. I would rather turn those people away and spend my time with those who really want to learn diving.

This is an ok start but if the student doesn't follow through and get more experience and more training it was all a waist.

 

[dgrosvold]

Although I'm doing my AOW as SSI, my OW was PADI (same LDS)

6 students total

Our OW consisted of -

First week:
3 nights of class - 4 hours each
Second week:
3 nights of pool - 4 hours each

OW Diving on Weekend at end of 2nd week at lake dive site:

2 Dives on Saturday ( 3 students per dive. so a total of 4 dives for instructor ),
2 dives on Sunday ( once again... )

Each OW dive takes about an hour and a half to two hours ( including setup time, dive time, and after dive discussion)

so - 12 classromm hours, plus 12 pool hours, plus 6 to 8 hours of OW dives = 30 to 32 hours of instruction.

Pretty close to 31 I'd say....

- DG

 

[dgrosvold]

I forgot - we also did a skin dive...

+ 30 mins.

- DG

 

[TCDiver1]

Agree with you Mike. Our classes tend to run into the 40 to 50 hour total ranges if you add it all up. Sometimes more time is required in the classroom, but usually the extra time is spent in CW or OW. Every class is different. It also depends on how many students are in the class. I find private sized classes in the 2 to 3 student range can easily be done in the 32 hour range depending on how well each student is doing.

Just out of curiosity, do you have your own pool, or do you have to rent one? How much is hourly rental if you rent? Pool rental in our area is getting very cost prohibitive. Now in the 65 to 75 $/hr range & tough to schedule. We try to do as much CW training in non-pool settings as possible for this reason. This is also limited due to weather & water temps. Just curious how it is in your area.

 

[MikeFerrara]

We rent a pool. We use several pools and the costs range from $25/hour to about $60/hour. We have to have a minimum class size or call it a semi private and charge more. The min is three. I set a max of six. Sometimes with small classes we have a DM or DMC for each student. It's nice. It's fun and it's safe. In general we are trying to raise prices all around. Most people are aware that for years training has been a lost leader. This makes no sense especially with the retail competition these days. Prices for training are half what they should be. We don't want to be cheap. We want to provide the best training and be paid the best. OW classes are not yet a profit center but they will be. If someone wants cheap I can reccomend cheap shops and instructors. All one needs to do is read this board to see that you get what you pay for. You will not get highly skilled professionals in a $200 class unless it is very short and something is left out. We have stuck to our guns and we are gaining a reputation, hopefuly one that divers will pay for. If not I will stop teaching.

 

[SubMariner]

sometimes work with an instructor who does not fully do his homework on these areas. The hectic preoccupation students have regarding catching boats back to the mainland, etc distract form the lessons. If the pool sessions & calssroom must be done on the first day, they need to find a pool & class room that are closer together.

Artchick, getting pool time/space is not as easy as you think:

1) Depth requirement. Not all pools are deep enough to do the required skills.

2) Availability. Where do you FIND a pool that will rent you time? Some pools want a long term committment, others a minimum number of rentals, others require you to use a lifeguard (theirs!), others need months advance booking, make you rent the WHOLE pool for an outrageous price, etc., etc., etc.

Then of course there is the fact that not all pools will make themselves available for rental. Reasons for this vary from "our insurance won't cover it" to "the last divers we had in here chipped up our tiles".

3) Cost. Mike indicated the wide variance in pool cost. Sometimes you simply cannot rent a pool that is physically nearby for a price you can afford.

4) Location. Wouldn't it be great if there were a "perfect pool" on every corner? There isn't.

There are similar logistics/problems doing open water.

AC, as a Divemaster you are a valuable member of the Leadership team. However, you are not directly involved in setting up Academics, Confined & Open Water. If you were you might see exactly how complex it can become.

Although I'm not excusing the Instructor you describe, I suggest that there may well be reasons for the seeming "disorganization" of his courses. Perhaps you should sit down & talk with him to find out.

~SubMariner~

 

[TCDiver1]

Originally posted by MikeFerrara
We rent a pool. We use several pools and the costs range from $25/hour to about $60/hour. We have to have a minimum class size or call it a semi private and charge more. The min is three. I set a max of six. Sometimes with small classes we have a DM or DMC for each student. It's nice. It's fun and it's safe. In general we are trying to raise prices all around. Most people are aware that for years training has been a lost leader. This makes no sense especially with the retail competition these days. Prices for training are half what they should be. We don't want to be cheap. We want to provide the best training and be paid the best. OW classes are not yet a profit center but they will be. If someone wants cheap I can reccomend cheap shops and instructors. All one needs to do is read this board to see that you get what you pay for. You will not get highly skilled professionals in a $200 class unless it is very short and something is left out. We have stuck to our guns and we are gaining a reputation, hopefuly one that divers will pay for. If not I will stop teaching.

It's the right thing to do. Max class size of six is great. We try to keep the instructor/ assistant to student ratio in the 1 to 2 or 3 range. Have team taught classes as large as 16 with two instructors & two certified assistants. Control is nowhere as good with a 1 to 4 ratio like this, and students DO NOT have as good an experience.

Sounds like you have a good thing going. Keep it up!

 

[Rooster1]

MikeFerrara I like your approach of giving students the time which no doubt will make them more comfortable. I do think you are a bit of an exception to the rule. Around here it seems they will certify you with a foot on your back shoving you through the course, to get things done and over with and on to the next CLA$$.

I have always maintained I would rather pay more for better instruction.