Question about pony bottles

[waterpirate]

WOW!
Trying to go after Dale for an opinion is pretty small of you. Open your mind to differing approaches to the same problem and you will reap the benefits of being a " thinking diver ".

I rarely buddy dive, but when i do the entirety of your rant is disscussed in the pre-dive. If it is off kilter, I thumb the dive on the boat. I frequently do deco on recreational charters. In this scenario I am squarely with Dale. I will give what ever aid possible to a diver in trouble. I like Dale, would donate the majority of my resources to possibly save someone who was/is less prepared than me. Your mileage does vary.
Eric

 

[lowviz]

... No! you can't use (grab) anything I have. It's my equipment and my life! I will share with you - but I will decide how and what.

I can't criticize, you are listed as no groups and solo only.

... In a choice between my life and yours - guess what - you lose. If you are in trouble, it's not because I have neglected or abused your equipment, nor done anything stupid, nor neglected to keep track of air. All on you. So if you expect help then you damn well better have been listening on shore.

But what if it runs the other way around? What are your expectations?

Your convictions are self-consistent, I have no use for you. However, I'm just curious as to what attracts you to a social site?

 

[doctormike]

Adverse events rarely unfold as predictably as they do during drills and people sometimes react in odd ways.

The most insightful sentence in this thread so far...

 

[Frosty]

Hey folks -ive read through this thread and it genuinely frightens me that as far as I read everyone feels you should have a octo reg or pony as aas.
If MY buddy is out of air and ive got one working reg we are going to be getting up close and personal and buddy breathing to the surface.
is it "best practice?" --Guess what i couldn't give a flying petootie if it is or isn't we are going up and both of us alive on the surface.
IMO its a pretty darn important skill that has been dropped from (at least) padi training.

-my point if it was lost in translation is that as long as one person in a buddy TEAM has air and even just one working reg that TEAM is going to the surface together and alive. -IF they have the required skill

 

[T.C.]

IMO its a pretty darn important skill that has been dropped from (at least) padi training.

I disagree. It once was important, and is a good skill to know, but, having the proper equipment has rendered it unneeded and a historical oddity.

We we have developed the second regulator as a simple fix to this high-stress skill. Having the ability to give a functional 2nd reg to donate obviates the need to try to share one reg with a stressed diver. It is a simple, common sense piece of gear that makes this skill less dangerous and less stressful. It has become universal piece of gear that makes it so rare and unnecessary to teach buddy breathing in Basic OW training.

Much as cartridge rifles rendered the skill of loading and firing a muzzle-loading rifle a historical skill, the simple addition of an Octo to our gear has rendered this a skill that is not needed in basic Open Water training.

 

[kwinter]

It always comes down to a question of how many simultaneous failures you train or equip yourself for. What if your buddy has a burst disk blow and your octo second stage is flooding? Then buddy breathing might be the only recourse. What if your buddy has a heart attack and sinks into the abyss just as your main tank blows? Then I guess you had better carry a pony bottle since an octo won't help. You can come up with ridiculous scenarios of multiple failures to justify any equipment configuration or training scenario. There is no one right answer, just opinions. And like a-holes, everyone has one.


iPhone. iTypo. iApologize.

 

[Frosty]

I disagree. It once was important, and is a good skill to know, but, having the proper equipment has rendered it unneeded and a historical oddity.

We we have developed the second regulator as a simple fix to this high-stress skill. Having the ability to give a functional 2nd reg to donate obviates the need to try to share one reg with a stressed diver. It is a simple, common sense piece of gear that makes this skill less dangerous and less stressful. It has become universal piece of gear that makes it so rare and unnecessary to teach buddy breathing in Basic OW training.

Much as cartridge rifles rendered the skill of loading and firing a muzzle-loading rifle a historical skill, the simple addition of an Octo to our gear has rendered this a skill that is not needed in basic Open Water training.

I have to start by saying how darned refreshing it is to have a discussion not a mudsling
BUT--This thread is in the ADVANCED forum not basic or newbee.
I agree with you that the to use of an octo is fantastic for new or less experienced divers.
Perhaps I expressed my concern badly
I'll try again
Given this discussion is in the ADVANCED diver discussion board It really worries me that octo/pony seems to be the only two options offered. Sharing air is a clear third choice.
That it seems noone raised that point a lot earlier in an advanced diver forum is a genuine concern.

 

[lowviz]

... Sharing air is a clear third choice.
That it seems noone raised that point a lot earlier in an advanced diver forum is a genuine concern.

IMHO, sharing air properly or even practically takes two clear heads. Done it with the kid (surprise drill) enough times to know that it usually just sucks. Increases emotions and provokes a me vs. you situation. I'll pass on it unless it is a last resort.

 

[Foxtrot16]

I always dive with a 3L pony bottle as it is a backup in case my main tank stops working for some reason.

The pony bottle is located on my right hand side and the reg is clipped to the harness of my BP&W so I know where it is all the time - as opposed to my dive buddies who disappear as soon as we hit the water

Being a photographer I am often on mine own at a site so I dive within certain protocols I set myself and I have done the SDI Solo Dvr Cse.

I don't rely on a buddy to be there to save me if something goes wrong as I have to be prepared to save myself first - I trust all the guys I dive with as we know each other; however, I do not trust or rely on some random diver that I am buddied up with on a trip so I have to be prepared first and foremost to look after myself.

Travelling with it isn't an issue as I just remove the valve and put it in my dive bag - sometimes I get asked what is is or funny looks but when they see all the other dive kit it isn't a problem.

I do believe everyone should have a pony botte as a redundant back up system.

Karl

 

[Kharon]

I can't criticize, you are listed as no groups and solo only.
But what if it runs the other way around? What are your expectations?

None. I dive as a solo diver even when accompanied by someone else. Don't need or want their "help". If I die it's on me. If they need help I will do whatever I can to get them to the surface in good health. As far as a social site, this ain't facebook. It's a site to discuss all aspects of scuba as far as I can tell..

waterpirate, "Go after" "rant" - wow - grow a thicker skin dude.

And Dale, more unfounded assumptions (mostly ad hominium attempts) "If I am at risk of dying because someone grabs my pony reg - I have the problem, not them. I either lack confidence to adapt, skill to cope, or have a poor equipment configuration. It is expected in the recreational setting that someone afraid of drowning might go for any reg so if I configure myself in such a way that is dangerous who's really not paying attention to conditions? Situational awareness. If my redress is that I get to call the shots in an event or I'm taking my ball and going home, who's the poor partner? "

Nowhere did I say any of that bunk. As far as explaining myself/my procedures to you - first, don't need to - second, it would only generate more nonsense from you. You apparently feel you have to be the last word. OK you "win" ("win" - not "are right"). Can't be bothered.