Question on trim...

[Blue Space]

MHK once bubbled...

Part of why I'm trying to discuss the skill is because ad hoc ideas like using weights on the tank is using gear to solve a skill problem. Accordingly, if you learn how to adjust, and learn the skill you'll have trim no matter what tank(s) you dive, no matter what wetsuit or drysuit you dive..

Once you understand the interplay between balance, trim and buoyancy, and how to adjust them, the rest of diving is easy.. The fundamental platform must get squared away and learned first, and then from there you can make any adjustment to balance yourself, trim yourself and adjust your buoyancy..

Thanks for the help I will try what we discussed this weekend at the lake, in the meantime my wife will have a good laugh as she watches me practice on the living room floor....

 

[Charlie99]

Mike and MHK, I think you are making this more difficult than it needs to be. BlueSpace is obviously just beginning to work on trim.

Step one should be to get fore/aft (head to foot) weight balance in the right zone. Changing leg position to affect trim only works once you are reasonably close.

Moving weight from a weight belt up to BC trim pockets, or changing the tank position is the first step. Arched backs, pulling feet in and out, etc. are for fine adjustment.

Mike - although you worry about the air bubble upsetting trim, my experience has been that with proper weight distribution the minor movement back and forth of the air bubble actually stabilizes trim. If you go head down, the bubble move toward your feet and keeps you head down, and vice versa. In other words, you have lost agility, but the bubble adds stability in all positions except back down / face up, where a large bubble wants to roll you. Back inflate jackets and wings are more stable / less agile than wrap around BCs.

Congrats to Blue Space for noticing a problem and wanting to correct it. That's the first really big step.

Charlie

 

[leadweight]

Charlie99 once bubbled...

Congrats to Blue Space for noticing a problem and wanting to correct it. That's the first really big step.

Charlie

No kidding.

Last week at Fantasy Island one guy on my boat was so out of trim that he was almost vertical. He finned wildly and blew through his air in about 40 minutes on a relatively shallow dive. Perhaps he did not know what the inflator on his BC was for.

Sometimes I don't understand it. Anyone who has ever been skiing can spot someone who can ski beautifully. For the typical recreational diver the concept of diving beautifully does not exist. Without an objective improvement is difficult.

 

[PaulB]

Ear weights. ut:

 

[Blue Space]

In defense to the diver you are referring to I can't say I blame him. If it wasn't for the scubaboard I'm not sure I would have known to correct the problem. I'm sure I would of been just the same (out of controll in the water).

 

[Charlie99]

leadweight once bubbled...
Last week at Fantasy Island one guy on my boat was so out of trim that he was almost vertical. He finned wildly and blew through his air in about 40 minutes on a relatively shallow dive. Perhaps he did not know what the inflator on his BC was for.

I often travel solo and have random buddies. When I come up with half a tank left and my buddy asks how I do it, that is a great opening to help him out with weighting and trim.

I've had buddies cut their SAC dramatically just by figuring out where neutral is. Believe it or not, the lightbulb moment for most is when I tell them to simply stop ALL motion and find out what happens.

Once they get buoyancy figured out, then and only then can they work on trim.

It's trite, but accurate, to say that the biggest step is realizing there is a problem they can fix.

MHK bubbled.....
"Part of why I'm trying to discuss the skill is because ad hoc ideas like using weights on the tank is using gear to solve a skill problem.

Yes, it is a skill problem, but in the same way that diving with too much lead is a skill problem. Proper location of weights is the first step and can be easily done without taking either a DIR-F or a Peak Performance Buoyancy Course.

Charlie

 

[AzAtty]

The problem with your trim is that lame BC you were diving...wait...that was the BC you borrowed from me on Saturday, wasn't it?

Actually your trim was better than you think it was. You were pretty horizontal every time I looked back at you.

 

[Blue Space]

AzAtty once bubbled...
Actually your trim was better than you think it was. You were pretty horizontal every time I looked back at you.

I'm thinking part of my problem is comparing myself to people who have been diving for years. When I looked at you and Steve I felt like a fish out of water. You guys looked so in control and relaxed throughout the whole dive.

But I guess comparing myself to better divers is going to make me a better diver in the long run. Speaking of a good diver Steve is pretty damn good. He has all those kicks down its pretty amazing to watch him underwater.

Thanks for all your help guys....

 

[Charlie99]

Blue Space once bubbled...
I'm thinking part of my problem is comparing myself to people who have been diving for years. When I looked at you and Steve I felt like a fish out of water. You guys looked so in control and relaxed throughout the whole dive.

It sounds like you have some great examples close at hand --- use them! Much better than getting advice over the internet.

 

[GreenDiverDown]

AzAtty once bubbled...
The problem with your trim is that lame BC you were diving...wait...that was the BC you borrowed from me on Saturday, wasn't it?

Actually your trim was better than you think it was. You were pretty horizontal every time I looked back at you.

Just kidding

Actually, I agree with Blake...I think you were pretty much right on and it didn't appear that you were working hard to maintain it. I was quite surprised when I heard that you just recently started diving. I would have guessed that you had many more dives than you do. I bet MikeFerrara would even let you dive with him at the quarry!

And this...three of us diving together for the first time in...what...5 feet vis...and a mucky bottom. Didn't see much silting, did ya? You couldn't have been too heads up!

I suspect you're pretty close but just need a little tweaking. In fact, I bet leg position alone might do it...or maybe just a little more time in the water. Also, sometimes keeping your hands out in front a little can help...hands folded...where you can read you're guages. (Also serves to minimize arm movement.)

Splitting up the 20 on you're weight belt by using a BP, cam band weights or trim pockets make things instantly easier but may not be required for your good trim. You know you're always welcome to use one of my plates but I think you'll get it pretty quick...even in Blake's crappy BC.

SA