Razor Configuration

[djcheburashka]

No, those are rusting but more slowly. Anyway I'm not sure that grommets are really necessary and they aren't a big issue.

The hard problem, and I know you don't have a razor so it may be hard to see the full extent, is that around the mbp there are 5 or so different lengths of webbing or bungie that have to match up in just the precise right way, and the pieces don't stay still between setup and donning even when dry. It's just a real mess getting that mbp area setup properly and keeping it setup when you make a small adjustment somewhere.

One if the harder issues is the rear bungies. These go from the mbp through the attachment for the butt d ring and then to the bottom of the wing and they hold the wing in place. So the length from the wings top attachment point to the butt d ring attachment point should be almost precisely the length from top to bottom of the wing. The preferred position of the butt d ring dictates the position of the "delta plate," and then the preferred position of the waist webbing dictates the length of the rear bungies. Oh, and it has to be precise because the bungies are supposed to be under tensions. Ok great. But now add a single d ring to the shoulder webbing -- what do you have to adjust? Basically, everything. And since stiff webbing has memory... It just becomes a giant pain in the butt to make even small adjustments without throwing everything else off.

 

[loquat149]

Yea, I had a Razor about 1.5 yrs ago but sold it after one dive in Ginnie. I purchased a Manta wing and built a custom Razor-like harness for it after my wife dove hers for nearly a year. Since hers uses a single piece of continuous webbing and was a PAIN to adjust, I was determined to find a better solution. I added the third plate to separate the shoulder straps from the waist straps for my Manta rig to mimic the easy adjustments I can make on my Armadillo rig. On the custom harness I built for my Stealth wing, I realized I could lose the Delta and MBP plates, and just use the one custom plate that routes the shoulder straps. Those plates were replaced by stitching (Delta) or grommets (MBP). In your case, I wonder if you could adapt the bungee that holds the bottom of the wing down Stealth-style. Instead of running the bungee to a precisely positioned plate on your crotch strap, try lengthening it and running it thru your legs and attach it to your waist strap via a loop. The tension can then be adjusted via a simple granny knot. See the xDeep site for ideas.

Dave

 

[djcheburashka]

I get your logic. I haven't been a fan of the stealth at all, although I like a few of the innovations, because I feel like the whole thing is held together by spit and duct tape.

After a day and a half of tinkers I think I may finally have it correct again (all of this because I gained a few pounds, switched exposure protection, and added a d ring). I'll see what happens...

 

[Razorista]

The preferred position of the butt d ring dictates the position of the "delta plate,"

That's why the upper attachment of the wing is moveable.
The BAT-Wing is way to large to fit into the ideal position for everyone.
So the only way is to put it as low as possible matching the torso length of the wearer.

One has to admit that adjustability is not the Razors's strong point - at least not fast and easy adjustability.
It's main strength in that regard is that after adjustment everything stays in place and does not move or stretch between dives.

 

[djcheburashka]

The upper attachment point is a *little* movable. It's not a lot of flexibility. There are a lot of advantages to the razor, in my view. I still think it's the best. Some parts are just a pain in the butt

---------- Post added July 13th, 2014 at 04:30 PM ----------

While we're on the subject... Had anyone found good instructions for rigging stages to be mounted razor-style? (Not main tanks, just stages.)

 

[loquat149]

While we're on the subject... Had anyone found good instructions for rigging stages to be mounted razor-style? (Not main tanks, just stages.)

Here's how I rig my AL80 stage and deco bottles for the Armadillo, Manta, and Stealth rigs I dive. It should work for the Razor harness, too. I use a modification of the stage rigging Edd Sorenson developed for top-mounting SM stage bottles; however, I only carry my stage/deco bottles under my primary SM cylinders. Since my AL80 stage bottles are held under my primary steel SM bottles, they don't float up when they become buoyant. The top bolt-snap is fastened to the neck of the cylinder valve using the shortest possible piece of bungee loop. The bottom clip is attached to a hose clamp, positioned 10" from the bottom of the cylinder, using another piece of bungee. These bungees are short with very little play in them, so the stage is held tight against your body. I find when donning a stage you have to attach the top bolt-snap to the chest D-ring first, then attach the other to the waist D-ring. Then, remove in the opposite order.

I use a stage/deco regulator with a swivel turret, to route the regulator hose along the body of the cylinder. The hose is VERY short, 18" or 20" if I remember correctly. The second stage has a "Cave Adventurers" omni-directional swivel (not an "Omniswivel of Death"). The second-stage has a bolt-snap that clips into a 2" quick-link that is attached to the bungee loop fitted around the neck of the valve.

These bottles are placed in a "valve down" position, so you can imagine the photo on the left shows how the bottle would look to you if you had it clipped in to your left chest and waist D-rings. To deploy, open the valve, unclip the bolt-snap holding the second stage to the neck of the valve, pull the hose out of the hose retainer, start breathing.

This rig is set up so you do NOT rotate the turret from the position indicated in the photo when it is deployed. Also, you do NOT wrap the hose around your neck. In fact, the hose remains looped against the underside of the cylinder while breathing. The advantage of this is: (1) it's easy to trace the hose from the regulator in your mouth to the bottle on your side to verify which gas you're breathing; and (2) everything is kept clean and neatly tucked. Also, you can quickly stow the second-stage and its hose when you're ready to drop the stage.

This system works for me. I'm 5'11" and usually dive dry with steel LP 85/95's. I have only 1 welded chest D-ring and 1 (or 2) welded waist D-rings on each side of my harness, and NO chest strap.

Dave

 

[djcheburashka]

That's very similar to what I do but I find two issues -- first it's hard to clip at the chest during setup, because the bolt snap isn't bigger than the regulator. Second if the lower bolt snap holds it tight, it will tend to push the sm tank outward if not upward.

Do you really trust bungie under hose clamp though? Thought that was a big no-no.

---------- Post added July 14th, 2014 at 04:08 PM ----------

Ah you're doing it valve-down--that's what I've been doing also as a "solution."

 

[loquat149]

My SM bottles are Steels on very short leashes, so the stage has no effect that I can detect on them. Not sure what you meant about having trouble clipping into the D-ring, I've never noticed that.

Edd uses bungees under his hose clamps for stage bottles. I think lots of people in North Florida do, too. I guess you need to inspect them for wear, but I've never had an issue with this in well over a year. What I won't do is use a single hose clamp to rig a steel SM bottle. I use cam bands or double hose clamps.

Dave

 

[djcheburashka]

If you mount them valve-up, which is the Steve way, the bolts snap barely clears the regulator.

 

[loquat149]

Oh, I see. Steve should talk to Edd.

Dave