Recommendation on tech progression

[lunaire]

Hi All,

Here to ask for the opinion of the tech divers here on my progression towards full cave/rebreather.

End goal would be full cave, which would require AN/DP. I almost certainly will want to do rebreather at some point as well.

Currently have 125 dives; TDI intro to cave/sidemount/rescue. Still pretty early in my diving progression, lots of training and experiences is needed from here to end goal. I'm not looking to be full cave/rebreather by the end of the year, just looking for input on what is the most efficient way to get there - with minimal wasted certification, skill training, gear purchase, etc.

Should I do AN/DP in OC, then get full cave, then do it all over with rebreather? Should I get rebreather cert then go on from there? In my mind, long/deep dives, including caves, would be better done in rebreather, and doing deco training in OC might be a waste of time/resource on my part? Or is there a significant benefit in knowing how to do OC deco procedures as well as rebreather?

Thanks for any insight, in advance!

 

[Wibble]

Should I do AN/DP in OC,

Definitely IMHO

ANDP is kind of required for all technical diving, both cave and deep, as it starts you off with the gas switching and detailed dive planning. It’ll set standards too as you must have competent core skills — buoyancy, finning and trim.

Get that settled with some practice and be comfortable hanging around and switching gasses. Then move on. It’s not a race.

If you decide to move to a rebreather then you need to focus on that spending a couple of years to get really comfortable. The subtleties of CCR are what bite you. Your CCR training will basically require the ANDP skills, be that rich mixes, dive planning and switching to bailout(s). Obviously bailing out needs competent OW skills.

 

[formernuke]

New to this realm.

I did AN/DP first. I think it did help with beginning the muscle memory, sac planning etc. I was already diving doubles so the necklace I was already used to, if you use one with your ccr.

One of my friends here did not do AN/DP. He does kinda wish he would have.

There was a long discussion here on SB a short time ago about this and several said it was a waste of money.

 

[Guille G]

I have no advice, but just a small correction - you don’t need AN/DP for full cave. As in, it is not a TDI requirement.

 

[Wibble]

I have no advice, but just a small correction - you don’t need AN/DP for full cave. As in, it is not a TDI requirement.

But it will help

 

[tbone1004]

Hi All,

Here to ask for the opinion of the tech divers here on my progression towards full cave/rebreather.

End goal would be full cave, which would require AN/DP. I almost certainly will want to do rebreather at some point as well.

Currently have 125 dives; TDI intro to cave/sidemount/rescue. Still pretty early in my diving progression, lots of training and experiences is needed from here to end goal. I'm not looking to be full cave/rebreather by the end of the year, just looking for input on what is the most efficient way to get there - with minimal wasted certification, skill training, gear purchase, etc.

Should I do AN/DP in OC, then get full cave, then do it all over with rebreather? Should I get rebreather cert then go on from there? In my mind, long/deep dives, including caves, would be better done in rebreather, and doing deco training in OC might be a waste of time/resource on my part? Or is there a significant benefit in knowing how to do OC deco procedures as well as rebreather?

Thanks for any insight, in advance!

I would strongly recommend taking AN/DP and Full Cave in OC. Trimix I feel strongly in the opposite direction right now due to helium, but you need the bottle handling experience in OC and with full cave it frees you up considerably. Going for full cave now is kind of a "lead me not into temptation" issue where the temptation to go past your current training limits is going to be quite strong and unless you're ready to delve into CCR right now then I would head down the full cave path first.

AN/DP would be next and your full cave instructor should teach you backgas decompression but you'll want to get accelerated deco around the same time though AN/DP in a cave is a wildly different experience than in the ocean and if you have any aspirations for ocean decompression I would get in touch with @LandonL and take AN/DP in the ocean. He's also a fully qualified CCR instructor and cave instructor which is helpful. Cave deco is something that you can pretty much teach someone with half a brain how to do through text messaging as doing things like gas-switching with no visual reference for depth is not something that we often contend with. Not saying there aren't some basis where you have to do it, but you can take an ocean deco diver and they can easily do deco in a cave but if you take a cave diver with no open water deco experience and ask them to do bottle switches it is often a pretty bumpy ride.

With CCR you'll have to do a cave crossover if you want to dive Ginnie and that is a few extra days of training, but consider it con-ed and roll with it in a few years as it's often good to get a refresher after a couple of years of diving to make sure you don't develop bad habits. Someone like @kensuf is also an instructor to look at with a considerable amount of open water experience on top of his cave experience and will make sure those are nipped in the bud.

 

[lunaire]

I have no advice, but just a small correction - you don’t need AN/DP for full cave. As in, it is not a TDI requirement.

Clarification, it's basically required where I intend to get my full cave - in FL.

 

[lunaire]

I would strongly recommend taking AN/DP and Full Cave in OC. Trimix I feel strongly in the opposite direction right now due to helium, but you need the bottle handling experience in OC and with full cave it frees you up considerably. Going for full cave now is kind of a "lead me not into temptation" issue where the temptation to go past your current training limits is going to be quite strong and unless you're ready to delve into CCR right now then I would head down the full cave path first.

AN/DP would be next and your full cave instructor should teach you backgas decompression but you'll want to get accelerated deco around the same time though AN/DP in a cave is a wildly different experience than in the ocean and if you have any aspirations for ocean decompression I would get in touch with @LandonL and take AN/DP in the ocean. He's also a fully qualified CCR instructor and cave instructor which is helpful. Cave deco is something that you can pretty much teach someone with half a brain how to do through text messaging as doing things like gas-switching with no visual reference for depth is not something that we often contend with. Not saying there aren't some basis where you have to do it, but you can take an ocean deco diver and they can easily do deco in a cave but if you take a cave diver with no open water deco experience and ask them to do bottle switches it is often a pretty bumpy ride.

With CCR you'll have to do a cave crossover if you want to dive Ginnie and that is a few extra days of training, but consider it con-ed and roll with it in a few years as it's often good to get a refresher after a couple of years of diving to make sure you don't develop bad habits. Someone like @kensuf is also an instructor to look at with a considerable amount of open water experience on top of his cave experience and will make sure those are nipped in the bud.

I think I'm relatively conservative.. I plan to push my training, but keep my personal dives well short of the limit of my abilities.

Good point on ocean training for AN/DP, I think I'll look into that more.

Now if I am ready for CCR now, do you think I'm missing anything by skipping OC AN/DP and going straight to rebreather?

 

[Alekseolsen]

Altough I believe ART or AN/DP would be a good prerequisite I'm not nearly experienced enough for that to carry much value. What I do believe is a nice piece of information is that with at least TDI, I'll get (passing the course that is!) a cooler "CCR Start card" to 45 minutes, Deco and Trimix diluent due to previous cards. I'd hate beeing limited to 30m on a RB (as in, that would make MOD2 training urgent)

TDI CCR Helitrox Decompression Procedures - International Training - SDI | TDI | ERDI | PFI

www.tdisdi.com

 

[Wibble]

Now if I am ready for CCR now, do you think I'm missing anything by skipping OC AN/DP and going straight to rebreather?

Having ANDP will help prepare you for CCR training. Not having it will almost certainly result in the more restricted pass, e.g. 30m/100ft.

Many of the skills and theory in CCR MOD1 are covered in ANDP — a CCR is literally an advanced nitrox mixing machine, bailouts are stage cylinders, planning is about oxygen issues. MOD1 is hard enough, having experienced some of the material makes life easier and a chance of getting the deeper certification (40m/130ft or 45m/150ft).