Recreational Dive Light Manufacturers:Behind the Times

[gcbryan]

gcbryan:

Your comments are very valid. You do not have to start a company to express your opinion.

We have been dealing with battery technology for the last year or two in relation to our
DPV'S.

It has been eye opening to how non responsive USA based companies have been to our inquiries while the Chinese companies are sending us updates and spec sheets every day-including today.

We would prefer to source domestic. It does seem, sadly, we will source offshore.

Although I would not have expected that kind of response from Tobin I would have expected it from Princeton, UK, etc.

When companies react like that it doesn't hurt me...it hurts them. You can't take knowledge back. I don't care what the excuses are. I've found better technology and I'm dealing with the downsides as well (QA, slow shipping, slow customer service). I'll end up with a robust product through my knowledge, experience, and product tweaking and the US manufacturers can complain and go the way of the dive stores.

Scuba will still be here...but they might not be.

By the way, every battery I've ever bought said do not throw this battery in an open fire...it might explode. What's different with li-ion...do not over or under charge...always use protected batteries and a good dedicated li-ion charger.

 

[gcbryan]

What happened?

N

I can't speak for Ron, although I have discussed this with him, but my light had the same problem on the first dive. Fortunately, I had ordered a second set of li-ion batteries and have used them successfully on the next 3 dives which is where I'm at now.

 

[cool_hardware52]

My comments are the same price as your comments. Yes, I know...you have started a business. Great. I own your products. You're am example of what I'm talking about that is possible. Who are the light manufacturers that are the DSS of the light industry.

Your argument is lame for an internet board if you are implying that I can't have a valid opinion regarding the dive light industry unless I start a dive light business.

You can have any opinion you wish.

Nature abhors a vacuum, and commerce quickly fills an under served niche if there is a profit to be made.

I very much doubt that the US lighting suppliers are stupid or lazy or ignorant or backward.

It's much more likely that there are very sound, real reasons for the current situation that you are unaware of.

If you had benefit of the education that comes with starting and operating a business no doubt you'd be less "amazed".

Even a little research into the feasibility of starting or investing in such a venture should be enough to alter your perspective.

I've looked at the possibility of building dive lights several times in some detail. It's not an area I'm ignorant of, my "other" company is a lighting company.

I've designed, build and sold more than 100,000 rechargeable bicycle lights in the 25+ years.

I have very good sound reasons not to try and build and sell dive lights, and I could be producing them in a week or two if I thought it was good idea.

Here's a hint, I wouldn't want to be in the PC hardware business either.

Tobin

 

[gcbryan]

You can have any opinion you wish.

Nature abhors a vacuum, and commerce quickly fills an under served niche if there is a profit to be made.

I very much doubt that the US lighting suppliers are stupid or lazy or ignorant or backward.

It's much more likely that there are very sound, real reasons for the current situation that you are unaware of.

If you had benefit of the education that comes with starting and operating a business no doubt you'd be less "amazed".

Even a little research into the feasibility of starting or investing in such a venture should be enough to alter your perspective.

I've looked at the possibility of building dive lights several times in some detail. It's not an area I'm ignorant of, my "other" company is a lighting company.

I've designed, build and sold more than 100,000 rechargeable bicycle lights in the 25+ years.

I have very good sound reasons not to try and build and sell dive lights, and I could be producing them in a week or two if I thought it was good idea.

Here's a hint, I wouldn't want to be in the PC hardware business either.

Tobin

I'm not an entrepreneur. I did think about the business model of bringing dive lights in that I provided spec's for. I have a MBA in International Business but like I said I'm not quite the entrepreneur type (and I respect those who are). I'm fully aware of the issues. I have a hard time seeing how any small business can exist!

Obviously the problem is the harsh environment (read warranty issues) and the small market compared to other users of flashlights. There is also the trust issue of getting prototypes to fully test before spending my money.

Without the warranty issues it would be a no brainer. However, putting more powerful leds in a light isn't a warranty issue and regardless of how hard it is to start a business if I can go into a store and buy a $16 light and convert it into a dive light pretty soon others will realize that as well and no one will be able to sell $100 plastic 100 lumen led dive lights.

Of course as a business owner I'm probably pushing some of your buttons because your responses aren't totally related to my point. Certainly I didn't state or imply that businesses are lazy, stupid, but I'll give you ignorant or rather shortsighted.

What would you have called Detroit's approach 20 years ago...brilliant? Keep producing big cars in the face of popular small cars with sky high gas prices?
Government bailouts only to go back and do the exact same thing?

Yes, shortsighted is a term I'm comfortable with.

 

[cool_hardware52]

I'm not an entrepreneur. I did think about the business model of bring dive lights in that I provided spec's for. I have a MBA in International Business but like I said I'm not quite the entrepreneur type (and I respect those who are). I'm fully aware of the issues. I have a hard time seeing how any small business can exist!

Obviously the problem is the harsh environment (read warranty issues) and the small market compared to other users of flashlights.

Warranty is not the issue at all. Lighting is becoming a commodity, and commodities have very low margins. Hard to sell premium sugar or salt.

A large, low cost foreign producer of portable lighting will always enjoy massive advantages in buying power.

If a large producer of LED flashights can use basically the same emitter and drive electronics in their Law Enforcement Lights, and their BackPackers Lights, and their General Purpose Light and their Diving Lighs etc. they will be almost impossible to compete with, and they will always be the favored (large) customer for any new technology.

Add to this the rate of change for LED's and batteries (batteries a little less so.)

MegaLightingCorp has 10 channels of distribution and can always find a home for "yeterday's technology" when it becomes obsolete. They can take the left over emitters and put them in a low cost light sold at Wally World.

That's really hard for a scuba lighting company. If they get "caught" with yesterdays lights they are in trouble.

The trend in dive lights, with the possible exception of High end Can lights is going to be rebranding of Imported Lights.

In essence the scuba brands will be nothing more than "distributors" for MegaLightingCorp, working on a small margin, and selling what MegaLightingCorp makes available. The brands will be reduced to deciding what color to have their logo printed on the light.

Eventually MegaLightingCorp won't even need to rebrand the product. They will sell it under their own name.

Look at Giant Bicycle. They started out building bikes for many Marque Bicycle Brand Names. Then one day they started to sell bikes under their own name, and told the "brand" names they needed to find a new producer.

Some of these brands no longer had any manufacturing capacity and they soon disappeared. Ever hear of Schwinn?

Until the US decides promote instead of punish business this trend will continue.

Cap and tax anybody?

Tobin

 

[mdb]

Ever hear of Schwinn?

Yep: Welcome to Schwinn - Please Select a Site

 

[cool_hardware52]

Sale to Pacific

On September 11, 2001, Schwinn Company, its assets, and the rights to the brand, together with that of the GT Bicycle, was purchased at a bankruptcy auction by Pacific Cycle, a company previously known for mass-market brands owned by Wind Point Partners.[20] In 2004 Pacific Cycle was, in turn, acquired by Dorel Industries. Pacific and Dorel produced a series of low-cost bicycles built in Taiwan and the People's Republic of China, which were badged with the Schwinn nameplate and sold in large retail stores such as Wal-Mart, Target, and Costco. A second line of higher-level Schwinn-branded bicycles was also introduced for specialty bicycle shop retailers.

More at Schwinn Bicycle Company - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Tobin

 

[boomx5]

Sale to Pacific

On September 11, 2001, Schwinn Company, its assets, and the rights to the brand, together with that of the GT Bicycle, was purchased at a bankruptcy auction by Pacific Cycle, a company previously known for mass-market brands owned by Wind Point Partners.[20] In 2004 Pacific Cycle was, in turn, acquired by Dorel Industries. Pacific and Dorel produced a series of low-cost bicycles built in Taiwan and the People's Republic of China, which were badged with the Schwinn nameplate and sold in large retail stores such as Wal-Mart, Target, and Costco. A second line of higher-level Schwinn-branded bicycles was also introduced for specialty bicycle shop retailers.

More at Schwinn Bicycle Company - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Tobin

I remember when Pacific bought the GT conglomerate due to the bankruptcy. My brother actually raced for Powerlight (owned by GT) for a few years in the 90's and back then GT was a great company. Since the buy-out however, I think they've gone down hill.

 

[mdb]

Well to get back to the OP's post-He is talking about dive lights, not bikes.

We got a bit side tracked. Back on post. What about dive lights? Could be interesting to hear.

 

[cool_hardware52]

I remember when Pacific bought the GT conglomerate due to the bankruptcy. My brother actually raced for Powerlight (owned by GT) for a few years in the 90's and back then GT was a great company. Since the buy-out however, I think they've gone down hill.

GT was never quite the same after Richard Long was killed.

The larger picture of the US bike brands being swallowed by their suppliers is being repeated over and over in many industries and with many products.

Companies outsource to save money and stay competitive, only to find that they have become distributors for their suppliers.

One day the suppliers no longer need the power of the brand name, and it's over.

Tobin