Just to clarify, are some of you saying that long hose on the left is somehow not compatible from the cave perspective? .
Not at all, its just different (neither better nor worse).
especially different the way the hoses route around your body.
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Just to clarify, are some of you saying that long hose on the left is somehow not compatible from the cave perspective? .
The Standard is not to Superman, but to disconnect 1 tank at the rear connection. The logic is that you will want to be fluent at this so you can disconnect 1 tank as you approach the boat so you can hand it up before climbing the ladder.
I'd list the following reasons;
1) Developing equipment familiarity and ingrained muscle memory; especially with the cylinder bolt-snaps. Many students initially struggle with the operation to attach/detach cylinders, even at the surface. This is more practice with the kit, developing 'feel' for manipulating the snaps and the cylinders.
2) It provides a simple option for the sidemount diver to neaten/stow their hoses on the cylinders.
3) It helps develop awareness of cylinder buoyancy characteristics.
4) It is an initial orientation into the full capabilities of the sidemount system. Consider this something of 'beginning with the end in mind''. It highlights equipment performance capacity. It doesn't "train" for restrictions.
5) It provides some option for recreational overhead divers (esp. wreck) to utilize the equipment to escape from an otherwise dangerous situation. I teach my recreational wreck-sidemount students to never pass restrictions, but to remain aware of exit options that sidemount would permit in an emergency.
You are asking some very good questions in your posts, and I will add a few thoughts to some of the responses you have already seen. I think Andy (DevonDiver) has posted a pretty good summary of some of the reasons for unclipping. Honestly, it has nothing to do with looking cool. While you may not individually agree with the reasons he listed, they are nonetheless applicable to the design of the curriculum. In addition, it is probably worth keeping in mind that the current PADI course(s) grew out of the original SM Distinctive Specialty which was authored by a caver (who was also intimately involved in the subsequent development of the 'standard' specialties). And, I think it is probably hard for an individual with cave diving background to not include at least some skills which he has found to be useful, even for a non-technical, non-cave course.I was wondering why this syllabus includes how to disconnect and reconnect tanks whilst diving. Besides looking super cool while "superman"ing tanks, the only real reason I can think of is to go through very small restrictions which seems to be beyond the scope of recreational diving.
I cannot speak for all courses, but diver / cylinder buoyancy and trim are certainly a focal point of my (PADI) recreational SM course. They are obviously part of DevonDiver's course. I won't take any responsibility for how others conduct their activities - although if a PADI course doesn't include emphasis and instruction on trim, that is the failure of the instructor, because that aspect of training is clearly outlined in the PADI SM Instructor Guide, as something that is expected to be taught as part of the course. Andy has previously posted some links to (unfortunately) great video examples of incredibly poor instructor buoyancy and trim (which were subsequently taken off YouTube, interestingly enough). However, I don't think those examples necessarily reflect the PADI course, per se (or any other course), rather they reflect the individual instructors and their possible lack of experience (and skill). I have a sneaking suspicion that a video shot of any course they taught would show similar issues.Also, I was wondering if diver trim and tank trim are discussed in the recreational sidemount courses. The reason why I asked is because I searched for "PADI Sidemount" videos on Youtube and was shocked to see the lack of basic buoyancy and trim in some of the top videos. With proper diver and tank trim skills, I would doubt that most divers would need to even superman tanks for certain restrictions assuming the conditions were appropriate.
I simply don't see this as an 'either-or' situation. Unclipping a cylinder (or unclipping two for that matter) may actually give a diver a better feel for trim than simply emphasizing it is classroom discussion, or telling a diver during after a dive that they are not in good trim. I have divers unclip one AL cylinder, then unclip both, during one dive. I have them unclip one steel cylinder, then both, during a subsequent dive, and they get a first hand lesson in the principles of arm and moment. I agree with your point, that unclipping cylinders would be superfluous IF there was no fundamental emphasis on trim. But, that is not the case. To the list of reasons that Andy gave, I would add that unclipping a cylinder may also allow the diver to adjust the lower attachment point (presuming that the diver uses a cam band rather than a long metal hose clamp) which can directly influence cylinder trim.Yes, I agree with most of these points but I think these almost superfluous when compared to basic buoyancy and diver/tank trim skills. The equipment performance is lessened with poor technique and, with only 3 dives to cover basic skills, I’m not sure how necessary unclipping tanks at depth + swimming for 60 feet helps the divers to achieve good technique.
A good question, but note that 'valve drill' was listed multiple times, as part of the curriculum summarized in post #109. They are an integral part of the PADI SM course, beginning with the Confined Water dive, and continuing through the Open Water dives.Effervescent:As for #4, I've had an experience where I performed a bubble check at 30' and then realized that my inflator hose was leaking after unclipping and swimming with a tank in the front. Luckily my teammate pointed it out right before it got worse, and I was very comfortable with doing valve drills at that point, so I closed the tank and called the dive. My follow-up question to this point is then why wouldn't valve drills be included in the syllabus if 'beginning with the end in mind'?
And, that is a great example of the diversity of SM - you have found something that works well - for you. Should that be the only method that is taught to others, simply because it works for you? Please understand, I don't mean that as sarcasm, or as harsh criticism at all, merely I am pointing out that other divers may find it easier to stow their hose by unclipping the cylinder and swinging it out in front of them.As for #2, I recently learned that you can easily neaten/stow hoses by also unbungeeing and holding the 1st stage which I found to be much easier than swinging the tank out in front with AL80s. (I haven’t tried this with steel tanks though).
I won't take any responsibility for how others conduct their activities - although if a PADI course doesn't include emphasis and instruction on trim, that is the failure of the instructor, because that aspect of training is clearly outlined in the PADI SM Instructor Guide, as something that is expected to be taught as part of the course. [...] I agree with your point, that unclipping cylinders would be superfluous IF there was no fundamental emphasis on trim. But, that is not the case.
Taking the discussion beyond the context of sidemount, I still see examples of poor buoyancy and trim among a number of instructors, across agencies, diving single cylinder rigs and teaching OW students. So, the cynic in me asks, 'Why should sidemount be any different?'
A good question, but note that 'valve drill' was listed multiple times, as part of the curriculum summarized in post #109.
And, that is a great example of the diversity of SM - you have found something that works well - for you. Should that be the only method that is taught to others, simply because it works for you? Please understand, I don't mean that as sarcasm, or as harsh criticism at all, merely I am pointing out that other divers may find it easier to stow their hose by unclipping the cylinder and swinging it out in front of them.
Since I would argue that its easier for beginners to unclip the tank and detach all hoses while holding on to a ladder or doing this at the surface,
Im wondering why this particular skill is considered to be a mandatory skill while diver and tank trim and buoyancy control are merely optional skills.
... with only 3 dives to cover basic skills, Im not sure how necessary unclipping tanks at depth + swimming for 60 feet helps the divers to achieve good technique.
How would you argue that? I find it much easier to manipulate my equipment whilst relaxing in a leisurely neutral hover...
I've observed my students experiencing the same...
16. Swim underwater for a distance of not less than 24 metres/80 feet, including at least one turn of 180 degrees and swimming backwards using only kicks (unless doing so is impossible due to a physical limitation), without making contact with the bottom.
e. You may have students with weighted cylinders practice adjusting those weights underwater (optional).
I attended our local workshop 5 or 6 months ago. It was about how to deal (demo) with SM or rebreather equipment during a rescue (class).I'd be very interested in knowing what they've come up with, John ... I'd appreciate it if one of you PADI instructors would elaborate once this has been made public.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)