Refunds for Students who Can't pass O/W?

[Drew Sailbum]

as the course fee is for training.

I see no problem with a buddy assisting with surface buoyancy following an alternate air source ascent. I teach the person donating air that it is their responsibility too to be certain that their buddy achieves positive buoyancy on the surface. And just in case, I assign the buddy two jobs on the surface - 1)maintain buddy contact, and 2)keep the octo in front of their buddy's face so that if he/she slips below the surface, they can resume breathing from the reg.

But in a Controlled Emergency Swimming Ascent, the student must demonstrate that he/she can achieve positive buoyancy at the surface without any outside assistance. Presumably, if they needed to do this in a real OOA situation, it's because their buddy is not around to help out. Don't overlook dropping (or handing off) of the weight belt as a great way to achieve positive buoyancy quickly. Then orally inflating the BCD should be much easier.

 

[ScubaCrossing]

I voted partial refund. This is based on a student not able to complete any particular Skill and does not wish to continue for what ever reason. It's a little different for me as I only teach Privates, I have a 150.00 non refundable deposit made during the first orientation. If the students drops for what ever reason during the pool or ocean dives, the remaining price is simple divided by the remaining sessions not completed. I am lucky (knocking on wood) I have not had to use this rule yet.

 

[jiveturkey]

I don't think there should be an obligatory refund unless the shop is using that as a marketing strategy. I do think there should be some compensation for those students who find out they cannot equalize but this should be determined the fist time they hop in the pool. There aren't many people like this but there are some who unfortunately don't have the proper physiology for this sport.

 

[Genesis]

refund that which was not actually consumed.

The instructor's time was. The boat dives (if any were included) were not, and neither was the certification fee from the agency.

The student is due the unused portion of their fee for services not actually provided, unless it was disclosed up front, before they paid for the course, that the fees are 100% non-refundable and earned fully upon initial payment.

 

[Al Mialkovsky]

I voted no as a general rule, but I'm sure there are times when I would be inclined to give a refund. But I'm a sap for a sad story.

Lessons aren't exactly a profit making venture for dive shops. For independent instructors it is another story.

Interesting that she can't inflate her BC. I myself would be willing to spend as much time as needed to see she has her skills down. I certainly wouldn't want to see her pushed through the class, but I know I'd be willing to help her all she needs.

Back in the dark ages when I was first certified my naui instructor demanded that you have to be able to do a certain amount of pull-ups. I think it was 10. Easy for a guy, difficult for a woman. The two women in my class couldn't do it.

What did that have to do with safe diving? Beats me? But it sure got rid of the women and I think that was his plan.

Nice that times have changed.

Help this student, ya don't want to be talked about like my first instructor

 

[Jonathan]

why not ask them what they would do if they found they couldn't keep their head above long enough for a good breath? If they answer remove weight belt then - then that would sound like a sensible solution to me. That is if that is the only thing she is failing on...

Is that within the rules?

She does sound overweighted though.

Jonathan

 

[cavemanxxx]

Since when do people not pass PADI open water. Thats half the problem !

 

[ElectricZombie]

No, they do not deserve a refund.

You either pass or fail...it's that simple.

If you fail out of college, the University will not refund your tuition.

As long as the instruction is adequate, I don't see the need for a refund.

You can always work with the student later on if they are still interested in certification.


If she can't stay up on the surface, she's probably a bit overweighted.

 

[GQMedic]

This is so getting blown out of proportion. Giving this student a refund would really be counterproductive in the long run. Instead, train this student. Remediate the skill, and remediate again if necessary. In the end, such remediation will build confidence and competance without compromising the students demonstration of the required skill.

Those of us who dive often forget something crucial. We KNOW how to dive. These skills seem simple to us NOW. But this wasn't always the case for many divers PRE OW course. Enter the Insructor... Being taught "how to teach" those little things many divers do without thinking. We've practiced, we've performed, and these skills (hopefully) have become second nature.

The typical OW student is (pardon the analogy here) scuba stupid, apprehensive and quite possibly even scared. IS this student not strong enough to perform this skill? Not really. I'm willing to bet she's not weighted down all THAT much where it requires brute strength to maintain a kick at the surface to manually inflate her BC. Odds are, she's fidning difficulty with the skill MENTALLY. She may even be thinking too much about it. There's also a possibility she may be slightly overweighted. If so, that's easy to make this simpler, drop some lead until she's weighted properly and it doesn't feel like a sweatin' to the oldies workout with Richard Simmons.

When all is said and done, this is supposed to be FUN. We can critisize, consider ourselves the gate keepers of the scuba world if we want to, but in reality, we're all just divers and far from the elite. Scuba is supposed to be fun. So, before this student gets shown the door, try to remember that. I'm also guessing that as a result of her having to struggle a little with this skill, once mastered, her c-card will hold more value in the sense of accomplishment.

Hense, get her back in the water after some counseling, calmly and firmly say "Diver, do it again".

 

[Big-t-2538]

I think there should be another option....

Such as not pass the 1st time, but got a big discount on round two....

I also agree with Genesis....if the boat for check-outs and agency fee was included in the original price, then that should be refunded...

Other than that, a class is just that, a class...it is not a license...how many of you failed your driver's test on try 1 and had to go re-take it? Did you get a refund....?