Remember the Dive Guard posting?

[videofly]

Anything to keep oxygen flowing to the brain box would be my top priority. This this seems more like an automated body recovery tool....[/QUOTE?

I also assume this to be more of a body recovery tool.

 

[kelemvor]

If you have a jacket bcd that will keep an unconscious diver's face out of the water at the surface it might do some good. Useless with a back inflate since you'll just be floating facedown.

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

If you have a jacket bcd that will keep an unconscious diver's face out of the water at the surface it might do some good. Useless with a back inflate since you'll just be floating facedown.

No BCD is designed to turn an unconscious divers face up and hold their face out of the water. Look at a Type I offshore lift jacket (left, which does this) vs a Type III life jacket (which is found on most boats and like a BCD, is not designed for this) to give you an idea on what is needed. None of the BCD's I have seen have anything like the support on the Type I.

 

[lowviz]

Why would I stop breathing?

Because you're dead. You need redundancy because you need to be dead AND have post mortem baro-trauma.

How did I miss this thread!!!

This device is exactly what I want, it could open up solo diving at Dutch. I just want to do buoyancy/trim stuff ad infinitum, no dive bud would put up with this and the Dutch staff are a collective pain in the ass.

Dutch would be fine with this new approach, just collect the floating carcasses at the end of the day...

 

[g1138]

Who hear has actually inflated a Jacket BC to overpressure and went limp?
You flop face down in the water just the same as a back inflate; especially if you use the integrated weight pockets. A back inflate just does it with more gusto.

I think this product is great for Coast Guard, much "easier" to search for a body that's on the surface. But it is not so great for immediate rescue.
You float yourself 60ft up from the group and on the surface you can't guarantee the boat will see you, especially in rough conditions.

Going unconscious underwater near the group or in the vicinity allows the group to have a rough search area, so long as the victim is negative. And that's assuming a dive of follow the leader everyone scatter type of dive.

The question then becomes what is better? To stay drowned underwater? Or to have been bent and unconscious at the surface, while facedown in the water?
Lets say best case scenario for both situations, person is found within 5 mins.
Safe ascent rate and CPR for the drowned victim and you're dealing with just drowning.
Dive Guard situation and you're dealing with drowned victim and DCS.

I'd rather deal with the first situation. There is no guarantee you'll be found if you pop to the surface.
I know more Go Pros that have been found Underwater after a search than those on Float straps.
When was the last time anyone on this forum got good news when they lost their Go Pro on a float strap underwater?
A body is no different so long as you know the rough area where your incident occurred. Once you're on the surface it's all bets off.

It doesn't solve a problem, it just changes the situation. I don't think this is a better situation unless the dive site is specific, say a park or quarry.

 

[AfterDark]

I kinda of assumed all heart attacks are unexpected

I would think if one becomes paranoid enough to expect one though being an old fart, a FFM might be more benefit. Anything to keep oxygen flowing to the brain box would be my top priority. This this seems more like an automated body recovery tool....

Unexpected heart attack or otherwise the diver has stopped breathing for this device to work on its own so what does it really matter? Like you said a automatic body recovery tool. I carry my cell phone while solo diving so the NSA will be able to locate my body!

 

[Lost down under]

OOA situation, diver uses buddies secondary, computer being highly 'intelligent' interprets this as the diver deciding to kick the bucket and inflates the BCD. Although the device is fitted with an override the stressed diver may simply forget to hit the button. A minor incident has just become life threatening and no body lives happily ever after.

Also has no one informed them that in the SCUBA world black is the new black and if you want to sell kit it must come in black with an assortment of D rings!

 

[VsubT]

We use a device called an Automatic Activation Device (AAD) in skydiving which has been popular for about 15 years. It senses a set speed of descent at about 750 to 1,000 feet, and if that speed exceeds a descent rate equivalent to having no canopy out (about 78 mph), it cuts the reserve parachute (second parachute in case you have already cut a malfunctioning main away; kind of like a redundant pony) closing loop and the reserve canopy automatically deploys. The device has saved numerous lives and after having one of our instructors go in without the device, it is required at our dropzone (and now, many others). On the other hand, there have been a relatively small number of AAD malfunctions, which have cost lives, but considering all factors, it is a wonderful device. I wouldn't consider jumping or having my son jump without one.
Having been knocked out in a freefall collision (I came to in time to deploy), devices that protect unconscious and/or stupid people from disaster may be a good idea. However, at this time, I am probably not ready for the scuba device until it is well-proven to not cause more harm than benefits. Most of all, it is the potential for an uncontrolled ascent that concerns me.

An AAD is a different animal. It activates a reserve parachute that's designed as "Plan B" from the beginning. Trigger conditions are very clear-cut (below x altitude & above y speed --> cut reserve loop), with a realistic expectation that reserve activation will improve your survival odds.

The DiverGuard seems to have much trickier trigger conditions. There's already an example of a situation on this thread which would result in triggering with bad results. The odds of improving any situation originally causing the trigger conditions also don't appear to be good, given the high probability of barotrauma.

I see what you're driving at, but there's a pretty big gap between the two devices at a system level.

Lance

PS - Search for "Tom Piras" on dropzone.com for some interesting reading on the adoption of AAD's in the skydiving community.

 

[videofly]

I fully agree with you. I was merely comparing technological solutions to equipment malfunctions and/or poor judgment and skills execution. Of course, slowing down a fall in the air is good while speeding up an ascent in the water can be bad. As I said before; it sounds more like a body recovery tool.