Rescue class equipment

[leadweight]

Mike, your point is well taken, and you are more in the right than the instructor that wants to ban particular gear. I was just exploring what she or her employer might have been thinking. My post was written just as Genisis made his post about the boat captain. From the sound of it there is some juvenile behavior here on the part of that boat/shop owner.

As for getting lost, well, I must dive with some very patient people.

 

[Genesis]

doesn't SELL any of this kind of gear.

The shop is the one who trained me originally and also the one I did my AOW through. I like them in general, but I don't care for their nazi-like attitude on pricing (which of course dovetails nicely with that of the lines they carry), nor did I appreciate the attempted lambasting on their boat when I was talking with another diver on board about my changeover (still in process at that point) to a BP+W + long hose. At the time I was diving a Knighthawk and "conventional" reg setup, but only because I had just gotten the BP and was spending pool time getting used to the differences.

The owner basically tried to tell me that diving a bungied backup was "dangerous" as I had to donate the reg in my mouth. I pointed to the Air2 she had sold me on the Knighthawk, and said "oh, so the rig you SOLD ME is dangerous, since I will be required to breathe THIS at depth and donate MY primary?"

She got REAL red in the face, and it wasn't a sunburn

I haven't dove their boat since, which is fine with me, since I have my OWN boat. Their loss; there are times when I can't get enough people who can dive to make it work to run my boat, but I'll be damned if I'm going to show up on their boat with a KNOWN unwelcome gear config, and I'm also damned if I'm not going to dive what I prefer, which is a BP+Wing+long hose, just for their grins and giggles.

The instructor in question is a cave diver - I've talked with her about her diving, and she's been at it for a long time. She is not a cave INSTRUCTOR (she is certified to teach cavern, but not full cave), and is one of the better divers I've seen around these parts. As instructors go, she's great - I have not one complaint with her in terms of her diving skills, or her ability to impart knowledge in a no-nonsense fashion.

I suspect that her bias in this matter is a matter of shop policy, but it doesn't matter really - if I want her to teach me, and I do, then I either accede or don't take the class.

I do own the other BC, and I still have the short hoses, but it seems stupid to me to take rescue with an unfamiliar (I've been diving the BP+Wing+Longhose for essentially the last eight months non-stop) kit for me, then switch back to the other. Yeah, I can do it. But why?

I've heard that one of the things you have to do in Rescue in the pool is swim down to the bottom to your kit which has been dumped there and don it while wet, starting with only a bathing suit. I can do that. I've tried it in my pool. Once I get to the reg the rest is easy, 'cause I have air, and in fact with a long hose its EASIER since I have a LOT of hose to work with while donning the rest of the kit! No risk of getting the reg torn out of your mouth.

I've also doffed at the bottom of my pool and then done a free ascent. Yeah, my pool isn't real deep. So? What does depth have to do with it, other than getting to the reg on your first breath-hold dive from the surface?

I suspect that at the end of the day I'll blow off the class, since acceding to this is both silly in my opinion AND reinforces what I see as bad behavior on their part.....

 

[leadweight]

Time to find another LDS.

 

[Laser]

cat once bubbled...
Let's see if I have this right...
(I probably don't)
In the end, this turns out to be about a photo CAPTION that's incorrect?
Sheesh.
I don't see why MHK felt he had to apologize to *anyone* for the fuss - HE didn't post the photo with that deceptive caption on the GUE site (it's down now, BTW). Ok, it's an old photo. It should have come with an "after" photo and a better caption. Seems to me that MHK explained its existence in a reasonable manner (goodness knows the question of its age is easy enough to check on), so why wasn't that the end of it?

There's two types of "Dive Nazi" behaviour here. Neither is beneficial IMHNO (N="newbie"). I don't know which is worse - the foaming-at-the-mouth "DIR" fanatic or the foaming-at-the-mouth "anti-DIR" fanatic. Both groups are acting like they've gargled with shampoo.

Conform to get through the class and then config your rig how you want. The long hose makes perfect sense. Those who say they want the OOA diver closer for other reasons haven't learned how to properly deploy the long hose.

I found out this weekend that the LDS in town here won't let me train with them or dive with them with my current regulator setup. Why? Because with the fins, DG/BT, the long hose and the fact I'm planning to order a BP/wings soon the dive shop owner thinks I've been influenced too much by "a bunch of Dive Nazis down in <insert name of popular Ontario dive location here>". (??? I don't have a clue who he's talking about).

The official excuse is that "the long hose is dangerous because it could strangle me".

Great. Foaming fanatacism on both sides is poised to WIPE OUT most of my dive season and (almost) ALL of the progress I was planning to make this summer. I don't have a lot of instructional choice up here. I'll have to change the hoses away from something I find to be perfectly functional or dive elsewhere all because SOME IDIOTS OUT THERE (Walter, can I say that if I'm not specific? It doesn't look like a personal attack to me. - WWW™) are putting people's backs up to the point where they are willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Thanks a <insert your own expletive here> lot. You'd think we'd have learned from recent world events how damaging fanatacism can be to the perception of any "way"; religion OR diving.
cat
(now preparing for a shallow summer - thanks for letting me rant)

 

[Genesis]

Time to find another LDS.

Me thinks me may be out of LDS options around here, at least out of ones with instructors that I would like to take this class from.

Oh well, I can buy a lot of fuel (for the boat) and power (for my compressor) with the money I was going to spend on the class

 

[Se7en]

I'm going to suggest an alternative view.

On a rescue course, your gear gets dragged around a lot. The one downside of a long hose is that it does allow the 2nd stage to get battered around a bit more - i think during a rescue course there is potential for the long hose to cause all sorts of beatings to your second stage.

I 'cheated' for my rescue course, and wore a wetsuit and jacket BC, with short hoses, rather than drysuit, wings and long hose. And gave my regs a full service afterwards...

I suspect that most rec divers would have trouble getting me out of my harness and drysuit... and I've not yet seen anyone carrying shears. Then again, I don't expect to have any significant problems when doing rec dives either.

So, although the shop is wrong to say you can't use a long hose, it may be a wise move anyway...

Se7en

 

[Cave Diver]

cat once bubbled...

I found out this weekend that the LDS in town here won't let me train with them or dive with them with my current regulator setup. Why? Because with the fins, DG/BT, the long hose and the fact I'm planning to order a BP/wings soon the dive shop owner thinks I've been influenced too much by "a bunch of Dive Nazis down in <insert name of popular Ontario dive location here>". (??? I don't have a clue who he's talking about).

I think that's a rather narrow minded viewpoint. As long as your equipment meets the minimum requirements for the class, it shouldnt matter what it is.

Most of the instructors I know encourage different types of gear, as it exposes students to things they may run into in real life situations and allows them to take about pros and cons of each setup.

I would ask the LDS what their specific objection it to each item. You should be evaluated on your skill and ability to perform what they ask you to do. If you can do that, it shouldnt matter what gear you're in.

 

[cat]

John - you got it in the black there. It's the narrowness of the viewpoint (and, I admit, the way said viewpoint was expressed) that's got me concerned rather than the viewpoint itself. If this had come up when I first rolled into town and dived with them in the pool (yup - he saw it routed in the pool and didn't overreact then) it would have been more understandable - and mighty easy to respond to while I had the rig on and was in the water and I could show them how the hoses worked. (They can't really object to the fins because they sell them). So I'm scratching my head to figure out why something that didn't raise hackles when it was in full view caused such a fuss when it was out of sight.

Nah, I'd be willing to bet that someone else or something else got his back up and I just happened to be the one who got blasted. Or perhaps Walter's conjecture is correct and the LDS owner started thinking about the old cave diving rig which DID have the hose wrapped around the neck (twice, Walter? Because somewhere in mid-dressing-down there was a mention of my having the hose wrapped around my neck twice - which just isn't so and I did make a somewhat lame attempt to correct his misunderstanding on that)

Maybe he's worried I'll corrupt others. Beats me why he thinks anyone would listen to a newbie like me preach dive religion, even if I was doing it (which I am not - I get the need to teach out of my system by having to train people at work so I have no desire to become an illicit underqualified dive instructor)
Heh - but I've now figured out who the "<Ontario location> Dive Nazis" are supposed to be...

Se7en: that's an interesting point you raise. Rather than "cheating" and diving with another set of regs and hoses, i wonder if there's any way I can protect the regs for the class (pool bottom hurting them?) without compromising the utility of the exercise? They're new regs and I'm already growing unnaturally fond of them

 

[Walter]

Cat darlin',

Why do you push me to my limits?

I'll bet I haven't seen one of those wrap around hose routings in 15+ years. I believe it was twice around the neck, but I really can't picture it that clearly.

I remember when I first heard of the routing you use, it was described to me as being routed "around the neck" and I pictured the old method that really was around the neck. I later heard a more accurate description and have seen it it use. It is most definately not "around the neck."

 

[cat]

Shock and dismay from the peanut gallery.
Ok, I won't ask details on anything from that far back (trying to forget a lot of the 80's myself, especially the hairstyles). Umm, unless it's about Heinlein, of course.

I'll see what I can do to reason with the LDS owner (I'll be good and try it without "shovels and rakes and implements of destruction" - name what song this is quoted from if you can) when there is no studio audience.

"Were you ever in Quebec / with a hose wrapped 'round your neck/ catch and kill you in a wreck /don't be such a donkey..."

Edited to add: Adam! :whack:
(Nah, "Hanging Johnny"'s a different Great Big Sea cover)