Rescue diver confusion...

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learn-scuba once bubbled...
Why does everyone always insist you have "your own skills down before you help someone else" ??? Man, I don't care if you're the world's worst diver... if I'm in trouble I'm not going to turn down your help.

First rule of rescue: Don't become another victim.

The reason for having your own skills down is so that you are adequately prepared to take care of yourself before you attempt to take care of someone else.

If someone was in trouble and you weren't trained, you could still attempt to help them. Throw something to them, send a boat after them, do something.

But if you are improperly trained or lacking in skills and you enter the water to help them, you increase the chances of becoming a victim yourself. Now the next rescuer on the scene has two victims to deal with instead of one.
 
Cave Diver once bubbled...
<snip>But if you are improperly trained or lacking in skills and you enter the water to help them, you increase the chances of becoming a victim yourself. Now the next rescuer on the scene has two victims to deal with instead of one.

Well, I can't speak for NAUI or PADI, but as far as SSI goes the rescue training is far more about preventing accidents than rescue. That's why the course is called Diver STRESS and Rescue. Further, we're talking about diver rescue and not swimmer rescue... the vast majority of this is not about jumping in the water and becoming a second victim... it's about handling a situation during a dive. Just how "down" do you have to have your skills to do that?

As has been pointed out by another poster on the thread... the rescue training is far more mental than physical -- I'm sorry, but no matter how hard one argues, I simply do not accept that the physical requirements for diver rescue are so demanding that one must be a SCUBA God to pull them off. Frankly, any properly trained open water student has adequate skills to help in an emergency. It may not be perfect help, but I'll bet dollars to donuts it would beat the stuffing out of no help at all.

And, most importantly (to me anyway) is the added measure of safety established in the student himself (or herself) as a result of the training. The more people who are trained to recognize and handle diver stress and deal with emergent situations, the fewer people you have wandering blindly into them.

Anyway... it's just my opinion. I just happen to be pretty vociferous on this one.

edited for a glaring typo
 
I have completed Stress and Rescue for another reason. But my feeling on this that if you find your buddy in trouble wouldn't you want to:

(1) FAR PREFERABLE, recoginize the problem starting and thumb the dive or settle the situation down before it turns into and all-out hair-raising rescue.

or

(2) Know how to help more effectively as it will be human nature to try and help your buddy, especially if they are family. Effective help vs. ineffective help (which you may be tempted to offer without the course) will be beneficial in reducing the chances of you becoming a victim and also not injuring the stricken diver on the way up. As has been pointed out in other threads the "two victims" idea may get blurry if this is your family involved.

This is why I don't see the need to wait until one gets an AOW card to take Stress and Rescue/ Rescue. Your skills don't need to be perfect to prevent an accident or minimize it's effects. You simply need to be comfortable with the thought of backing up your buddy if there is a problem instead of strictly relying on THEM to support you.
 
PADI requires you to do the AOW first IMO to get you more comfortable in the water....these points have already been argues though. I kind of agree with all of the above to a certian degree.

Nobody is saying you can't try to rescue someone if you are only a novice. That is entirely up to you.

IMO it would be pointless to try and teach a very new diver who has not dived that much and can't deal with their own problems in the water let alone someone else's. My train of thought leads to what a "rescue diver" means. For example I'd rather know that the rescue diver on my dive who holds that C-card has actually progressed up through AOW and has at least 20 dives plus the course dives. So that in an emergency I can call upon them to assist and know that they should be able to deal with the tasks I might want to deligate. Rather than calling upon another rescue diver who although has been trained in techniques may not have the same experience and skill level to be able to apply their training. Does that make sense?

Also some skills you learn in the Advanced you'll use for the Rescue course. Like navigation. So the PADI type pregression makes sense to me.

However, IMO and depending on quality of instructors etc. the NAUI advanced is a better course than the PADI one (Note! - I am a PADI instructor!). Cos you have to do more things, you do some in water rescue and there are some neat optional things to do to.

I checked out the NAUI website to see how their progression system works and they've got Advanced after Rescue and the Rescue Diver is an OPTIONAL "speciality".

http://www.naui.com/index-side.html

I did my AOW with NAUI and this has a Rescue component (in water rescue breathing) to it. You can also learn search and recovery in the AOW too. To me it looks like they have removed Rescue from the progression training scheme - included a little but in the AOW and left the other bits as an optional course.

I haven't got the NAUI rescue diver spec so I don't know how intensive it is. So I can't comment on which Rescue course is better but I would advise you to check and see if it covers in water resucitation - cos perhaps it doesn't. If you want to progress with NAUI and know you will go onto to do the Advanced course with them than that is cool. Have a think about how far along the road you want to go and then think about who you want to ge there with.

I did the NAUI Advanced and the PADI Rescue. I would say this way you get the best of both worlds. But seriously - check out who would be teaching you etc. There are many things to consider when choosing a course. The agency dictates the bare minimum that you get taught but some instructors will teach far beyond that and those are the ones you want to go with! :wink:

Sorry it took me so long! There isn't one simple answer to your question!!

:)
 
In order to comment on the question: AOW before rescue?, a couple of factors need to be addressed.

First, AOW and rescue will vary between agencies. In the PADI sytem, the idea is that each program introduces and practices development of skills in progression. For example, in OW class, Navagation is introduced. Students practice reciprocal headings only. There may be cases in which students practice additional skills in nav, however reciprocal headings are the only required exercises in OW.

Some people, especially those experienced with a compass, may develop additional skills through practice. However I believe that most students require additional training (AOW) in order to be proficient with both compass and natural nav tecniques.

It would be illogical to expect a rescue student to be able to perform the "search for missing diver" excersice when they have not yet been taught expanding squares, u shaped nav etc...patterns. Not having leaned these tecniques, when and where they are appropriate, would make it difficult for the student to even choose which one to try, when presented with a senario.

Since nav is essential to all divers, even those who do not go on to rescue, the proper place to learn is in AOW, not rescue. Many may argue that more nav should be included in OW, however at present it is not.

This leads to another concern. Many divers comment that they did not learn much in AOW. To me, this indicates that they were not challenged enough in class. Their instructor failed to recognise, analize and advise on weak areas of the individual. All to often students do their homework, watch the video, then simply participate in a dive.

Many dive centers/instructors go further. Some instructors simply look over students knoledge review at the dive site prior to the dive. I feel that it is more productive to have classroom time in which instructors elaborate on the material. After all the idea is that most people need repetition to learn. Some respond well to reading, others to audio/visual, others to lecture. If a student :reads it, then watches video, then hears lecture, then practices it, "it" sticks better. Ever heard of the "7 notches" theary of sales? The customer needs to see/hear your name 7 times to make it stick.

Furthermore being an effective instructor means helping people see what they have learned. That means "catching them in the act" so to speak. If you try to tell someone after the dive, "hey, I noticed that you forgot to check your buddy's cummerbund during the pre dive safety check, it was crooked". They may acknoledge, but the human psych tends to convince itself "naw, i didn't do that". Instead, a more effective methos may be to watch the pre-dive safety check. Ask "are you done" then point out a few things each diver missed (and there is ALWAYS something). The result, "wow, I learned something", " i DID miss something".

Without such specific training procedures it is easy for divers to develop/improve without noticing. Although we, as instructors may see it, they may not. It's kind of like a child feeling themself grow. If you don't make a pencil mark on the wall now, how will you see how much you grew six months later.

With that said, my opinion is to get into the AOW class right away. It is easier for us to build on the good habits you've leaned than it is for us to have break bad habits you could aquire on your own, then retrain the good ones (does that make sense? perhaps there is a better way to express this). After AOW, get right out there in rescue class. Nothing beats training when it comes to skill development and confidence building.


King of the run on sentance,

Andrew
 
Id think the most important thing would be to log some dives first. AOW is mostly fluff, and not really needed for rescue, but you should make sure you know your basics before going to an advanced (rescue) course.
 
Thanks for all the great feedback everyone. I think I'm going to hold off a bit and do AOW first. This way also I can do dual NAUI/PADI certs. (The dive shop I did my OW through is purely PADI--but I got kinda mediocre vibes from that whole experience--I liked the diving and all--the shop just gave me funky juju feelings...however there is another shop in town in which most all there instructors are NAUI and PADI instructors. They typically cert NAUI but if you're willing to pay for the extra text and the extra cert fee they'll certify you for both. That shop also has much warmer vibes--both my bf, a padi divemaster, and I get much better juju out of this other shop) So I think it's time for me to scope out the other shop more thoroughly and sign up for AOW!

thanks again!
-leigh
 
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