Reserve limit 500 psi always? What about doubles?

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

Hey Devondiver,

Sorry, this post is a little OT:

I'll bet that you have to iterate this answer quite often. Don't worry, you are not the freak. And, I believe your answer is a good one and very smart. Time-in-rig could be the difference between life or death, if you are unfortunate and get in trouble while on a tech dive.

Most recreational divers believe the PADI no-decompression dive limits, and its reliance on buddy-diving for redundancy and added safety margin. The only real redundancy that a diver has is carried on his/her back or in his BC pockets. All dives are decompression dives. We are adults here. We don't need marketing techniques that falsely train people that NDL are not decompression dives. PADI needs divers to stay viable and some divers would not certify if they new they were performing decompression dives (there are two types of dives: decompression and staged decompression dives). Rec divers who don't have redundant systems on their back are rationalizers.

On guided dives I always have a 6 cf pony and on solo/unguided dives I use a 13 cf pony. I always have a small SMB, whistle, and beacon on guided dives. On unguided dives I use a 6 foot SMB, line reel, whistle, and larger beacon. A small knife and scissors are always with me. As a former open-ocean master mariner, redundant systems on the ocean is the key to survival. SOLAS gear is also essential.

My best buddy-diver is my wife. Too bad she has an SOB attitude (don't worry, we're in the same ocean buddy!!!).

I always use nitrox. I have never had to board the boat becuase of nitrogen loading issues. It is difficult to load-up on nitrogen using nitrox while on a recreation dive profile with an 80 cf tank, a depth limit of 60 to 80 fsw, and a 50 minute dive time limit.

If I have a pony bottle that is full, why can't I run my main tank down to 300 psi while serially practicing the deployment of my SMB from 30' while under the boat? If the crew is told before-hand and agrees with the dive plan--what's wrong with 300 psi back aboard the boat and a full pony??

Rules based on orthodoxy are rediculous. Religion belongs in the church, not the dive boat.

markm

I have a feeling that you just joined so you could throw PADI under the bus. While I don't always agree with what they do, they get people enjoying the water. Recreational or technical, it shouldn't matter what agency they trained with. I am sorry if I have taken this off topic but I hate the whole "my agency is better than your agency" crap. I am a diver and I love teaching. Maybe you should remember the fun in diving instead of all the bs politics behind inter agency squabble. Maybe you could train one of us "poorly" trained divers a thing or two if you got off your high horse. Sorry to the rest of you for my rant.
 
My double tanks are lp steel (Fabre) OMS 98's filled to 2400 psi.
There were two teams diving doubles, everyone else was diving aluminum 80's, with one exception there was one HP 100 .
No: no compressor or cascade for fills between dives.

MY original plan was to dive the twins for the first two dives, then switch to the single 80.
Dive 2 was shortened due to a broken stobe arm, so I didn't switch to the aluminum.

Mike D

Mike - You say this was an AOW dive with AOW rules - were they diving AL80 tanks? Were your tanks HP-100 and re-filled to 3,500 psi after each dive?


I'm assuming a few things here, like similar profiles to the outside of a wreck, and you are not an air hog, but it seems you were starting with more than double the useable gas of the single-tank divers. Assuming they dove close to their NDLs, you would have gone into deco if you had stayed down much longer. And the rest of the boat would be waiting while you finished your dive and your decompression stop. It just seems to me that if you used anywhere near your capacity, you would be holding everybody else up for a considerable length of time.

If you were doing all three dives on one fill, then I think he should have let you end with 500 psi in just one tank, like everybody else.

Edit: Oops - I just figured it out: No compresssor on boat, right?
 
Most recreational divers believe the PADI no-decompression dive limits, and its reliance on buddy-diving for redundancy and added safety margin.

Most recreational divers don't. They pay fleeting regard to the person who got into the water with them. Buddy checks are often nothing more than a quick breath from the first stage and some random tugging on straps... if done at all. They strap on a computer and swim around until they get low on air, then they ascend. It just 'happens' that their air runs low before their NDL expires... but they're not thinking in those terms. Most recreational divers, if asked, couldn't tell you what their NDL for the planned (!?) dive was, as they jumped into the water. Neither could they tell you what their expected gas duration was, for the planned (!?) dive.

Of course, that's not to say that most recreational divers don't believe they're safe for the dive. The training...and concepts behind the training (NDLs, buddy system etc)... only work if they are actually properly applied. They very rarely are.


All dives are decompression dives.

So is ducking to the bottom of a swimming pool. The body saturates nitrogen, then it desaturates - in varying degrees.

From a diving perspective, the dividing line between deco and non-deco is whether the amount of necessary desaturation allows a direct ascent to the surface, at a pre-determined pace, or not. That pace is calculated to be sufficiently fast to enable the diver to attain the surface on a single breath.


We don't need marketing techniques that falsely train people that NDL are not decompression dives.

A dive agency trains people according to its own definitions. The definitions of 'deco' and 'non-deco' are pretty standardised across the whole scuba industry. They are so for a reason... that being clarity and ease of understanding.. in the interests of diver safety.

If you want to apply your own definition to something, feel free. But don't then raise cynical points because of that.

PADI needs divers to stay viable and some divers would not certify if they new they were performing decompression dives (there are two types of dives: decompression and staged decompression dives). Rec divers who don't have redundant systems on their back are rationalizers.

Crock of....

Recreational divers know they can make a direct ascent to the surface if they have a problem. We can call that an 'NDL dive'. We can call that a 'pink' dive. We can call that a 'happy' dive. Whatever.

Depth + Time = Saturation. Saturation dictates ascent. Apply limits to saturation = reduce limits on ascent. Easy.

Divers understand the risk, because they know what options are, and are not, available to them. They are taught not to exceed certain limits - so that certain options remain available to them.

A line is drawn... actually, it's a curve... and divers are taught not to step over that line.
For convenience, the line is given an easily remembered name.

Again...it's quite easy and straightforward unless you over-complicate it, or try and be 'clever'.


[/QUOTE]Rules based on orthodoxy are rediculous. Religion belongs in the church, not the dive boat.[/QUOTE]

So, if a visitor comes to your house... your property... you wouldn't apply any rules?

They could do whatever they liked... and you'd say nothing? Do nothing? Be OK with that?

Hmmm.... What's your address? Is your wife hot? Is your refrigerator full? Beers cold? Bed comfortable?

Just saying.....

(my point: Dive Boats are private property. Unless that's your property, you do as the owner wants)
 
So what do boats with SPG nannies do about CCR divers? Do they just not allow them to dive?
 
At the safety brieifing the reserve limit was set at 500 psi. In that all divers would surface with at least 500 psi min gauge pressure.
I questioned the captain about the 500 being valid for doubles, & he responded with a hard line " thats the rule" dive by it or don't dive.

Hang a second SPG on the right side. Dive both sides down to 250psi. When questioned, show him the other gauge and explain that your other 250psi is "right here" in the other tank.

Seriously, though. As mentioned by others, don't forget that SPGs aren't that accurate near the bottom, and that when the
cylinder pressure drops below 150psi the first-stage regulator isn't going to be able to maintain the correct intermediate-pressure, so performance of the second-stage will start to "suck". I've found most SPGs (brass and glass type) indicate 75-100 PSI *high* near the bottom (comparing them to a calibrated source). Also, don't forget that 500 PSI in a single tank is really 350 PSI usable. This would be the same amount of gas as 325 PSI in doubles (assuming you can't use the last 150 PSI), not 250 PSI!
 
I went on a "tech" trip few years back in the Gulf of Mexico. The boat Divemaster cautioned us to return with at least 500 psi.

That caused much amusement and requests for clarification . Was that 500 in each tank? (Doubles and a deco tank) 500 average? 500 total? etc.

Can't see why anyone would plan on surfacing with less than 500 psi in doubles though, unless it was a really shallow dive.
 
if it is that important for you to surface below 500psi, why not just surface with less than 500 and apologize?

What is the captain going to do? throw you back in the water and leave?
 
Or just say you had to share air with a mermaid and she was a heavy breather.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

Back
Top Bottom